tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5636389828900724226.post2164811256132242292..comments2024-03-28T19:16:02.689-04:00Comments on Catholic in Brooklyn: Is Pope Francis Promoting Contraception?Catholic in Brooklynhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02714284710110785019noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5636389828900724226.post-7287273220117479412017-01-04T14:52:43.150-05:002017-01-04T14:52:43.150-05:00Here ya go!
Prevent STD's by not having sex. ...Here ya go!<br /><br />Prevent STD's by not having sex. Jesus never had sex, Mary and Joseph never had sex.<br /><br />Our priests and religious dont have sex.<br /><br />Chastity and purity are virtues. Mary consecrated her virginity to God.<br /><br />We are all sitting in the muck, masterbating with each other when we dont connect sex with God and with life.<br />cassius diohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13984498942034986905noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5636389828900724226.post-40418865928751884022016-03-15T06:57:40.054-04:002016-03-15T06:57:40.054-04:00Mine was not a knee jerk reaction in any sense of ...Mine was not a knee jerk reaction in any sense of the word. It is very considered. <br /><br />Actually, it is you who need to learn the facts. Evidently you don't know how the Pill works. It works in two ways. Step one is to prevent ovulation. Step 2, is, if ovulation occurs anyway (step one is not failsafe), then the lining of the uterus is made thin so it cannot sustain an embryo. Therefore, the embryo dies. By design. Hence it is also an Abortifacient. <br /><br /><br />http://www.lifeissues.net/writers/kah/kah_03howpillworks1.html<br />http://www.pfli.org/faq_oc.html<br /><br />This has been known for a very long time. I could give more evidence. <br /><br />Moreover, there's evidence that the zika/microcephaly link is rather weak anyway, But even if it wasn't: http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/setting-the-record-straight-about-zika-and-contraception/<br /><br />Yes, we use all licit means we have to stop epidemics. Note LICIT means. Like avoiding pregnancy through abstinence. Which is not impossible. Contraceptives? Due to weakness and to prevent awful illnesses? To prevent a possible deformity/death? Lets all do it then, because you never know when this could happen. Like it did to me. And God would never want that. So He will suspend natural law in this case. Because nothing good could ever come of a deformed or dead child, right? Wrong. Please read my previous post. So. One more time. You can't do evil for a good reason. Contraceptives separate the unitive act from procreative act in sexual intercourse, which is inherently evil. Full stop. End of story. <br /><br />I'm well and truly done. God bless.<br />Nonny Musshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07507832500087470368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5636389828900724226.post-1948223296302025292016-03-03T05:10:13.686-05:002016-03-03T05:10:13.686-05:00You really need to get your facts straight. The p...You really need to get your facts straight. The pill does not cause an abortion. It stops ovulation which prevents pregnancy. Something like an IUD does not prevent pregnancy but aborts a fertilized egg. Of course condoms are not a 100% guarantee that they will work, but they are far more effective than when not used. <br /><br />You also misrepresent Pope Francis' statement. If he did not say birth control was okay to prevent pregnancy in this case, there would be no controversy. He did say it. The question is, are we trying to prevent the conception of life or are we trying to prevent passing on disease that will most likely kill any life that is conceived? You, like most people, seem to think there is no difference. But there is a huge difference. It is the difference between what is sin and what is not sin.<br /><br />God bless you in caring for your child. You carry a heavy cross, and I know that at the same time you are receiving many blessings. The difference in your situation and those who are under threat from the Zika virus is that the Zika virus is a crisis situation that is capable of killing potentially millions of children. Are we to just sit back and say, so sad, too bad, or do we do whatever we can to stop this terrible epidemic? Do we use the means we have to stop this epidemic, or do we allow the suffering and death? What is truly sin and what is not? <br /><br />Please give this more thought than just a knee-jerk reaction as so many have done. Catholic in Brooklynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02714284710110785019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5636389828900724226.post-77887290784909325952016-03-02T20:33:15.197-05:002016-03-02T20:33:15.197-05:00Firstly, Pope Francis speaks about avoiding pregna...Firstly, Pope Francis speaks about avoiding pregnancy. Which has always been licit in certain circumstances (any NFP using couple will agree). <br /><br />He never stated contraceptives were licit means. The Pill certainly isn't, as it is an abortifacient, clearly condemned by Pope Francis. Condoms are certainly no failsafe either to prevent conception nor disease. I can go on.<br /><br />My first child has severe congenital abnormalities (diagnosed at 18 weeks) so I am no means blind to the suffering that this can cause. We live with it every day. And I thank God for His plan which far far exceeded my limited human understanding. And that God indeed is continually glorified through this. In so very many ways. My experience also does not convince me one bit that I could ever transgress moral law to avoid a possible evil, even an imminent one. I also know two couples (the wives are sisters) who lost 3 children between them to babies diagnosed early with anencephaly. Which is horrific. The baby dies in utero or within days after birth. Both couples were a powerful witness of how God brings love and mercy out of suffering. They loved their babies unconditionally and the siblings witnessed that too. The fruits of this were incredible. So don't limit God. "Though He slay me, still I trust in Him" - (Job 13:15). <br /><br />And as for St Paul, he said for some, abstaining from sex would be difficult, yes. He never said it was impossible. GOD DOES NOT ASK THE IMPOSSIBLE!! Besides. For God all things are possible, and St Paul reiterates this when he says: I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" (Philippians 4: 13)<br /><br />I also believe in loving and merciful God. But He does not allow sin due to weakness. Otherwise all manner of sexual behaviours would be allowed. Is this what you're suggesting? I think it is. Now, weakness may diminish culpability but the sin is sin is sin. God approving of sin is not God at all. What you are proposing is relativism. <br /><br />Finally, <br /><br />http://www.catholicworldreport.com/Blog/4611/did_paul_vi_approve_of_congo_nuns_using_the_pill_does_it_matter_if_he_didnt.asp<br /><br />The last sentence here sums it up. Again. I suspect this will not change your opinion any more than you have changed mine, so I think we should leave it at that! But with all God blessings to you and every reader. Nonny Musshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07507832500087470368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5636389828900724226.post-82687798060279163992016-03-02T16:40:09.365-05:002016-03-02T16:40:09.365-05:00I certainly did not mean to imply that you, person...I certainly did not mean to imply that you, personally, are merciless. I am saying that your approach - which is to condemn those who are unable to follow the teachings of the Church and instead allow them to suffer the terrible and unnecessary death of their children - is more concerned with rules than with caring about the needs of others. <br /><br />I found your article very interesting. The article states the exact words of Pope Benedict as such:<br /><br />"Seewald followed this up with a question about whether the Church is “actually not opposed in principle to the use of condoms.”<br /><br />Pope Benedict responded, "She of course does not regard it as a real or moral solution, but, in this or that case, there can be nonetheless, <b>in the intention of reducing the risk of infection, a <i>first step</i> in a movement toward a different way, a more human way, of living sexuality.</b>"<br /><br />The article then goes on, without any further quotes from Pope Benedict, to show that he did not mean what he said. Sorry, but it just doesn't wash.<br /><br />As far as Jesus Christ healing on the Sabbath and the effect it had on the Pharisees - you must remember the importance of the Sabbath in the life of the Jews at that time. They were given an example from the book of Exodus of a man who was killed by the Lord for picking up sticks on the Sabbath. From Numbers 15:<br /><br />"32 While the Israelites were in the wilderness, a man was found gathering wood on the Sabbath day. 33 Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and the whole assembly, 34 and they kept him in custody, because it was not clear what should be done to him. 35 Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must die. The whole assembly must stone him outside the camp.” 36 So the assembly took him outside the camp and stoned him to death, as the Lord commanded Moses."<br /><br />The Sabbath was the identifying sign of the Jews and held most sacred. Orthodox Jews still to this day still hold the Sabbath in the highest regard and reverence, as I see in my own neighborhood in which many Orthodox and Hassidic Jews live. <br /><br />When Jesus healed people, it was not necessary to do it on the Sabbath day. They were not in danger of dying on that day. He could have waited until the next day to avoid scandal and offense. But he didn't.<br /><br />Jesus commanded one man who was healed on the Sabbath Day to pick up his mat, which was completely against the Jewish laws, and as can be seen in the passage from Numbers, could result in death.<br /><br />But Jesus was telling us that doing good and helping people is always more important than rules. Yes, God's laws are of utmost importance, and I showed in my post, I completely understand and agree that birth control is morally evil and leads to many evils. <br /><br />I personally would never think to give people permission to use birth control to fight the Zika virus. But our Holy Father - in his wisdom and guidance from the Holy Spirit - has told us that it is not sin in this case. The Holy Father is a very prayerful man, always looking for the right path. He prays three rosaries every day, spends at least an hour a day in adoration, starting his day early in the morning with prayer. I see everything he does and says as being filled with mercy and compassion and leading people to Christ.<br /><br />That is how I viewed his comments about condoms and the Zika virus. And when I prayed about it and looked further into it, I found he was right.<br /><br />I am sure I will never convince you, nor will I try. But I do believe in a God of love and mercy, and I don't believe he expects more from us than what we can give. And to ask millions of married people to live without sex is, for many, an impossible request, as can be seen in the verse I quoted from I Corinthians 7. Catholic in Brooklynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02714284710110785019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5636389828900724226.post-30050395728154678412016-03-02T15:43:06.249-05:002016-03-02T15:43:06.249-05:00Firstly, Pope Benedict never allowed condom use to...Firstly, Pope Benedict never allowed condom use to prevent the spread of aids. <br /><br />http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/analysis-what-the-pope-really-said-about-condoms/<br /><br />What he said was quite different, was used in the context of male prostitutes (where life was never possible anyhow) and ONLY as it being a POSSIBLE step where the user starts to think about responsibility which may bring them to a proper understanding and use of sexuality. <br /><br />It is certainly NOT permission. <br /><br />Secondly, your compassion is clearly evident, and laudable. No question. But your Sabbath example doesn't hold water. For several reasons:<br /><br />Jesus cannot sin. Therefore healing on the Sabbath was never a sin. (Nor pulling one's donkey out of a well etc.) That the Pharisees thought it was was evidence of their own twisting of the law to suit them. <br /><br />Humanae Vitae clearly states use of contraceptives to prevent conception during the marital act as a sin. Always and in every case. NO MATTER HOW LAUDABLE THE REASON. <br /><br />The moral principal (not to do evil for a good reason) also clearly applies. Always and in every case. Full stop. <br /><br />The Pope, who has been given the authority to bind or loose, to forgive or retain sin has made it very clear. <br /><br />As for solutions, they need to come from medical advances, the assistance of the first world, vaccines. Terribly slow, but beats allowing immorality every time. <br /><br />I am not being merciless. That's a cheap shot. Jesus was not being merciless when he condemned adultery, even though by saying it would put lots of people off because they are weak. He didn't shy away from hard sayings. He has given us HIs example. Compassion - always! But one can't confuse mercy with permission to sin. <br /><br /> Nonny Musshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07507832500087470368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5636389828900724226.post-63893556103186604702016-03-02T13:10:38.496-05:002016-03-02T13:10:38.496-05:00I understand what you are saying, and it does seem...I understand what you are saying, and it does seem like a slippery slope. But that is what the Pharisees said about Jesus healing on the Sabbath - if you start to allow Jesus to heal on the Sabbath, then pretty soon, anything will go and the Sabbath will be completely desecrated. <br /><br />I will repeat what I wrote above: Pope Benedict XVI talked about allowing the use of condoms to prevent the spread of AIDS because just telling people to stop having sex was not and is not going to work. This was and is a crisis situation in which millions of people were affected and died, including many millions of innocent children. Outside of abstinence, the use of condoms is the most effective way to stop the misery, suffering and death.<br /><br />The same is true in this case. Yes, of course, abstinence and NFP are without a doubt the preferred way of dealing with this virus. But that just isn't going to happen. So do we allow people to take a chance on conceiving children who are destined to either die in the womb or be born with severe, permanent birth defects which will probably lead to an early death? Is that really what Humanae Vitae is all about? Humanae Vitae is about protecting life, and that is what Pope Francis is promoting and allowing. <br /><br />As the Pope said, once the children are conceived, there is no answer because abortion can NEVER NEVER NEVER be an answer. But it is not wrong to prevent the conception of these doomed children. <br /><br />If you can think of a better way, I'd sure like to hear it. Otherwise, to insist on forbidding the use of condoms is as merciless and uncaring as the Pharisees who condemned Jesus for healing on the Sabbath.Catholic in Brooklynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02714284710110785019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5636389828900724226.post-66686900966285968612016-03-02T05:44:31.000-05:002016-03-02T05:44:31.000-05:00You rightly say that the best way to avoid pregnan...You rightly say that the best way to avoid pregnancy in the case of the threat of Zika is to abstain or use NFP. You continue by saying that telling people to abstain/use NFP isn't going to work. I agree but the implication then is that you would allow (because of people's weakness) the procreative act to be deliberately separated from the unitive act, and conception to be deliberately prevented. This is clearly and in ALL cases condemned by Humane Vitae. It is the committing of an evil for a good reason which is also unequivocally and in all cases condemned: <br /><br />"it is never lawful, even for the gravest reasons, to do evil that good may come of it —in other words, to intend directly something which of its very nature contradicts the moral order, and which must therefore be judged unworthy of man, even though the intention is to protect or promote the welfare of an individual, of a family or of society in general."<br /> <br />It's pretty clear. <br /><br />I love Pope Francis and feel compassion for those affected especially concerned parents but it is not real compassion to say it's OK to go against moral law because of the suffering that may come. That's a really really slippery slope - Besides, living outside of God's grace causes more evil and suffering than any human suffering. <br /> <br />No. There must be a better way to help them. <br />Nonny Musshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07507832500087470368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5636389828900724226.post-40856186771368482112016-02-28T22:20:35.766-05:002016-02-28T22:20:35.766-05:00I will pray for you. It must be so difficult to be...I will pray for you. It must be so difficult to be in your position. Catholic in Brooklynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02714284710110785019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5636389828900724226.post-67130595118288682922016-02-28T21:42:57.925-05:002016-02-28T21:42:57.925-05:00>>>Both Pope Benedict and Pope Francis - ...>>>Both Pope Benedict and Pope Francis - and Blessed Pope Paul VI, if you believe the Church - all condoned the use of contraception to batte crisis situations<<<<br /><br />CIB, This statement is wrong, as far as I can see. Benedict addressed, I believe, the question of whether an aids infected homosexual prostitute might- in his own mind- be taking steps in the direction of being concerned about his customer by using a condom. That's not *contraception* as homosexuals cannot conceive, nor was it even condoning condoms. The question concerned the prostitute's subjective view of his actions. This would be similar to a mafioso who begins to tithe with his stolen income. It's a small subjective step in the right direction....objectively it's still out of bounds.<br /><br />Are you aware of an instance where Benedict really recommended the pill to eliminate society's 'undesirables'? Paul VI? Paul did tell us plainly and not in whispers.... <br /><br />"Similarly excluded is any action which either before, at the moment of, or after sexual intercourse, is specifically intended to prevent procreation—whether as an end or as a means."<br /><br />Francis is taking us to a new frontier.Kneeling Catholichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16797815971446807261noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5636389828900724226.post-36471090512984095182016-02-28T12:32:16.932-05:002016-02-28T12:32:16.932-05:00See my comment above. See my comment above. Catholic in Brooklynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02714284710110785019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5636389828900724226.post-46837098640753677162016-02-28T12:29:05.112-05:002016-02-28T12:29:05.112-05:00I think you need to re-read my post. Both Pope Be...I think you need to re-read my post. Both Pope Benedict and Pope Francis - and Blessed Pope Paul VI, if you believe the Church - all condoned the use of contraception to batte crisis situations AIDS is literally killing millions of people in Africa and the Zika virus has the potential of doing the same. This puts everyone at risk, no matter what your health status or genetics are. Otherwise normal, healthy babies will either die or be born with a very poor prognosis of survving. <br /><br />Do you really think that if there is a way to avoid this, we should not do it? As I wrote in my post, that is equivalent to the Pharisees who condemned Jesus for healing on the Sabbath. Catholic in Brooklynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02714284710110785019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5636389828900724226.post-86799858005315985582016-02-28T11:52:47.614-05:002016-02-28T11:52:47.614-05:00just a correction to my above comment 'if the ...just a correction to my above comment 'if the former is the case' should have said 'if the latter is the case'....my trying to be a little too high-falootin!<br /><br />CIB, one other sad thing about your post....your focusing on the severe debilitation including the unflattering pictures recalled to my mind the opening seconds of this film<br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HOcbkSiKUc<br /><br />I think you know this, but I will try to remind you that adversity is not the end of the world. God gives some people very heavy crosses to bear. We may feel we are helping families--bending the rules for them, when all we are doing is stealing their "ticket to heaven"Kneeling Catholichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16797815971446807261noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5636389828900724226.post-19321913287928412482016-02-28T11:38:16.523-05:002016-02-28T11:38:16.523-05:00CIB>>>>Do we as a Church just turn our...CIB>>>>Do we as a Church just turn our backs on these people and say, well, if you can't control yourself, you have to deal with the consequences of severely disabled and even dead babies? Is that truly how Christ would show mercy to these people? <<<<<br /><br />CIB, I do thank you for your prayers!<br /><br />On a less positive note, I'm afraid your sentence above is a carte blanche for the pill and condoms to anyone who might have a chance of producing severely handicapped infants. Who is not within that Venn diagram?<br /><br />Certainly some people are closer to the center of the circle, therefore you might say Francis is limiting the pill to hard cases, but regardless--if the former is the case, then Francis aiming special birth control efforts at reducing the population of defectives is the definition of eugenics. <br />Kneeling Catholichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16797815971446807261noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5636389828900724226.post-75567209996785570972016-02-27T23:26:28.470-05:002016-02-27T23:26:28.470-05:00I can't change your views nor do I wish to. I...I can't change your views nor do I wish to. If you believe that the Vicar of Christ can mislead, I can only think that you must really be struggling with your Catholic faith. It must be very difficult for you and I will pray for you and others who feel as you do. Catholic in Brooklynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02714284710110785019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5636389828900724226.post-40693751689859745002016-02-27T22:09:57.106-05:002016-02-27T22:09:57.106-05:00CIB<<<Pope Francis is saying it is not si... CIB<<<Pope Francis is saying it is not sinful to PREVENT the pregnancy of a child who may very well be die in the womb or shortly thereafter as a result of the Zika virus.<<<<<br /><br />Dear Lady,<br /><br />I think you have captured the essence of what His Holiness said on the plane.<br /><br />The problem is that this contradicts what the Church has already said, repeatedly.<br /><br />Christ calls us to heroic courage. Bearing a handicapped child is a risk many take. There is no opt-out clause. Life happens and we must be willing to trust our Lord that He will provide us grace to bear whatever may come....<br /><br />I am providing a link to a post I did a long time back regarding what happens when a pope thinks he is so infallible that he can ignore the Church's plain teaching....<br /><br />http://kneelingcatholic.blogspot.com/search?q=please+consider+the+confusionKneeling Catholichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16797815971446807261noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5636389828900724226.post-29457786622056729522016-02-27T21:48:39.018-05:002016-02-27T21:48:39.018-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Kneeling Catholichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16797815971446807261noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5636389828900724226.post-4556805549731926052016-02-27T20:23:15.716-05:002016-02-27T20:23:15.716-05:00Thank you for this excellent post and continuing s...Thank you for this excellent post and continuing support of the Holy Father, as a single man who never married and never had relations with a woman and who doesn't have a clue about 'birthing babies' I don't understand all of the intricacies - I actually do not have a need to know. My confusion came along as a result of all of those who went after the Holy father and Fr. Lombardi. They seem quite convinced the Vatican is out to destroy the faith. An absurd POV, no doubt - and this is the source of my confusion.<br /><br />I trust the Holy Father, and if need be, I trust a definitive statement will come along to clear these issue up.<br /><br />In the meantime, I pray for the Holy Father almost continuously. I love him so much.<br /><br />Sadly this online chatter by those who mistrust him erodes confidence in the Magisterium and harms simple faith.<br /><br />I deliberately choose to be a child in faith and place all of my trust in Jesus, who called and chose every disciple to guide the Church.<br /><br />God bless you for this well thought out post. Never hesitate to exercise fraternal correction in my regard if and when I get things wrong.<br /><br />TerryTerry Nelsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09819523933502820341noreply@blogger.com