tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5636389828900724226.post266661487012386848..comments2024-03-28T19:16:02.689-04:00Comments on Catholic in Brooklyn: Michael Voris: Spiritual Warrior or Great Divider?Catholic in Brooklynhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02714284710110785019noreply@blogger.comBlogger51125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5636389828900724226.post-21087950391617447582014-07-14T00:40:32.276-04:002014-07-14T00:40:32.276-04:00I have only listened to a few of Michael Voris vid...I have only listened to a few of Michael Voris video. I like what I see because I hear what he is saying. And it is ironic that those who maybe "used" to oppose him or don't like him anymore (he's negative, etc.) are behaving exactly the way Michael Voris is describing. What happened to the church? Where are the stalwart defenders from of old? Have we become the Church of "nice" or "that is too negative just get away from me?" Isn't that What Voris is trying to point out? For instance, as I perused this article I notice down below this article a tagline which read, "speaker cancelled because he is criticizing Islam" and I thought, is that the Church of "nice" operating because we have become so thin skinned that we cannot take criticism? What if a speaker came to one of our churches of "nice" and said something that was critical of Our Church or Islam or something else but what he said was true? Would that be okay? I mean if it is true is that okay? Or are we just going to be the Church of "nice" and only listen to things that we like to hear, whether true or not? I remember a time when priests and bishops told our parishes necessary things we needed to hear and they were hard to take. But they were true. I mean some of them did not deliver their sermons with any sugar. We had to listen. Then we had to go away and ponder what the TRuTH of the sermon was. But now? Geez. If the priest or bishop or visiting speaker doesn't roll it in sugar and dip it in chocolate and sprinkle it with pink sprinkles people reject it. They don't even listen to the TRuTH of what the speaker or preach is saying. They just feel a prick in their conscience and yell, "not nice! not nice! " and reject it. But then what is the outcome? Lukewarm Christianity and the insidious church or "nice" where everything deemed "negative" and "harsh" is thrown out even if true. Have we become spineless? Thin skinned? Easily offended? Addicted to sugar? Addicted to "nice?' Cause if that is the case I want out. Michael Voris is operating in the role of PROPHET and prophets always called the church back to repentance for sin. Isn't that what the Church needs right now? Cause it seems that with this culture of 'nicey and nice' we have gotten way off track and I for one have a royal bellyache from all the phony sweet stuff. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5636389828900724226.post-49140055916946988182014-03-17T16:17:57.797-04:002014-03-17T16:17:57.797-04:00I actually had to respond to his calling Marian ap...I actually had to respond to his calling Marian apparition followers as lunatics. Sure we must be careful but to call people lunatics when you know nothing about them is becoming prideful and uncharitable.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10835543275596999375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5636389828900724226.post-17525991468989551172013-07-10T20:29:31.496-04:002013-07-10T20:29:31.496-04:00You just have no idea how bad it really is. If you...You just have no idea how bad it really is. If you did, you would support Voris with every penny you've got.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5636389828900724226.post-18095955064838370612013-02-03T08:18:14.412-05:002013-02-03T08:18:14.412-05:00Freyr,
Fr. Barron has many, many videos on Youtu...Freyr, <br /><br />Fr. Barron has many, many videos on Youtube, in which he goes into more theological detail on his views, at times, than he does in his "Catholicism" series. This is the video to which Rebecca is referring, I believe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmsa0sg4Od4 I have qualms with some of the things that MIchael Voris says, but I am also greatly troubled by the position which Fr. Barron takes on the issue discussed in the video (and I write that as one who loves much of Fr.'s work). Christopher Lakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07327013707393086096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5636389828900724226.post-37906229842238431752013-02-02T11:23:43.674-05:002013-02-02T11:23:43.674-05:00Do you have a link to Fr. Barron saying this? I wa...Do you have a link to Fr. Barron saying this? I watched his entire Catholicism series and can't recall this idea being discussed.Freyrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01706221683777453812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5636389828900724226.post-23449467175617666532013-02-01T12:56:29.532-05:002013-02-01T12:56:29.532-05:00Testy? Of course it's to be assumed anyone wh...Testy? Of course it's to be assumed anyone who correctly and accurately criticizes Michael Voris is to be painted as heretical and testy. More false accusations from the Voris camp? I began this conversation in my first post with "I grow weary of Michael Voris' sweeping generalizations and 'filthy half-blood' accusations. His videos seem to give his adherents license to behave just as badly or even worse."<br /><br />Edge, you prove and illistrate my point. You have accomplished nothing more than to increase my weariness. I wish to engage you no further in your implications that I am some kind of heretical less than Catholic. I'm not a filthy half blood and I'm tired of your misdirection and distortions of truth, not to mention your divisiveness and disrespect.<br /><br /><br />Our Church is not the enemy Edge, neither am I, could it be you?<br /> <br /><br />Dismashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16914455567953306044noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5636389828900724226.post-52298290654160115882013-02-01T12:15:20.918-05:002013-02-01T12:15:20.918-05:00Edge - I, miserable sinner, am a member of the One...Edge - I, miserable sinner, am a member of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. I give fidelity and assent of faith to Sacred Tradition, Sacred Scripture and the Magisterium of the Holy Roman Catholic Church in all the fullness of truth she professes and teaches. <br /><br />Someday I hope Michael Voris, you and the rest of his acolytes will stop implying that I am a heretic and join us as well.Dismashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16914455567953306044noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5636389828900724226.post-68176077298116029822013-02-01T11:53:24.642-05:002013-02-01T11:53:24.642-05:00Hi Edge - you certainly have been busy, and have o...Hi Edge - you certainly have been busy, and have obviously given this a lot of thought. <br /><br />There are tremendous problems in the Church. There is no way I can or would even want to deny that.<br /><br />My post is about Voris' attitude towards the hierarchy in the Church. These are ordained men of God. They are not politicians that we can just get rid of when they don't do their job. That is why I gave the example of Saul and David. Saul was a terrible king and he actually wanted to kill David. But David still treated him with utmost respect because Saul was anointed by God.<br /><br />This is how we must treat our bishops. Yes, we most definitely need to call out bishops and priests when they are not in conformity with Church teaching. But it must be done in a respectful tone, and we can't just lump them altogether and label them "The Establishment." We cannot be referring to them as dead branches that need to be thrown in the fire.<br /><br />That is my entire argument. There really is nothing more to say.Catholic in Brooklynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02714284710110785019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5636389828900724226.post-48156905548283965162013-02-01T10:34:29.598-05:002013-02-01T10:34:29.598-05:00One more point, I have seen many priests and bisho...One more point, I have seen many priests and bishops publicly stated that the work Voris is doing is good and have encouraged him to continue, many more than those who have criticized him. I believe that looking at the fruits produced by both camps speaks volumes to those who have ears to hear and eyes to see. Should these priests and bishops be ignored and dismissed?<br /><br />Edgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15529635725427760062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5636389828900724226.post-30385322213940715762013-02-01T10:25:12.926-05:002013-02-01T10:25:12.926-05:00Catholic in Brooklyn - So we are on the same page,...Catholic in Brooklyn - So we are on the same page, do you agree that there is major turmoil in the church today? Do you believe that masses dedicated to the elevation of homosexuality conflicts with church teaching? Do you know that souls fooled into thinking sin is acceptable and die with out repentance will be thrown into the fire?<br /><br />The language of "dead branches" is from Christ himself. I see another commenter here has addressed this so I will not rehash it. But I will ask, should those in the hierarchy (from priest to cardinal) that ARE leading souls to hell through willful acceptance of sin, apathy towards sinners, and teaching sin in place of truth be allowed to continue to do so without being told to repent? <br /><br />If you are against what Voris says, how should it be done then? <br /><br />Can you accept that the souls they are leading astray are lost forever? <br /><br />Let us look at this another way. The homosexual abuse of the children is a perfect example. These men who were priests and bishops raped young males, but they were ordained by God to the priesthood, as they were part of the hierarchy (according to your words.) Should they have been left in place and left unchallenged because they were ordained by God? Of corse not, and these men were simply (in context) attacking the body. We were warned by Christ to fear those who can harm both the body and the soul. Do you sleep better at night and are happy that they have been removed so they can no longer do harm? So it should be with the religious (nuns, priests, bishops, cardinal) that lead souls to hell. <br /><br />You made the statement above "However, there is no getting around the fact that he is completely dumping on the bishops and priests and just wants them all out of the way." The questions I have about this statement are, do you really believe he wants ALL of them out of the way (total destruction of the Catholic Church), or just ALL that are teaching heresy? Next, if the ALL refers to just the ones leading souls to hell, why would you disagree with that? In the example from above, I believe you would want ALL of those who have harmed the "body" of the children out, so why would the same not be true of those who harm the soul?Edgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15529635725427760062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5636389828900724226.post-36208574234846757692013-02-01T10:00:27.803-05:002013-02-01T10:00:27.803-05:00Interesting - you seem to be a bit testy over this...Interesting - you seem to be a bit testy over this. Allow me to clarify, as a Catholic, we are not to idolize. I simply would like to know what Voris says that you disagree with. The handful of times I have watched him, he has not said ANYTHING that was outside of what the Church herself teaches. You apparently disagree - so please provide me an example, not just generalizations like "twisting the truth (lies)". <br /><br />Each soul will face judgement... mine, yours, Voris, Pope B16, Hitler, and Fr. nice. :)<br /><br />... and no, sin will not be tolerated in passing from this life to the next. If you believe it will, then you are not familiar with Catholic teaching.<br />Edgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15529635725427760062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5636389828900724226.post-68067114391212867012013-02-01T09:52:38.439-05:002013-02-01T09:52:38.439-05:00Dismas - I am not sure why you are claiming that I...Dismas - I am not sure why you are claiming that I self-canonized him, as that is the role of the church. Second, I do not see any examples from you as I had hoped to see. <br /><br />My point, and one I hope everyone who reads this asks - what is it they do not like? You state "he and his following only spit venom at our Church". I find this statement curious - are you a member of the church or nice as Mr. Voris calls it? <br /><br />Do terms like GIRM, Hell, Purgatory, Bible AND Tradition, have any meaning to you? I ask, because I am apparently missing something. He has stated often that there are those in the hierarchy that ARE leading souls to hell. Are you OK with them being led to hell? If you are, then that is all I need to know, and our conversation is done. If you are concerned with these souls being deceived by those in the hierarchy of the church (from laity, priest, bishop, and cardinal), then what should we do to save those souls? <br /><br />Have you sat in the pew and heard how abortion, contraception, premarital sex, stealing, etc are all wrong and will damn a soul to hell if they do not repent? Have you ever seen or worse yet, ever attended a clown Mass? Have you ever had a priest have you self-Communicate (take the body of Christ in place of receiving it)?<br /><br />No one can argue (if they have eyes to see and ears to hear) that the Catholics in the west have it VERY bad right now. So how do you propose we save the souls of these Catholics?<br /><br />As I said before, I only watch the Vortex on occasion, and have watched a couple of his other programs on the site, and have not even once found "error" (that which goes against the teaching of the church) in what he has said. I can tell you with all honesty, I have looked. <br /><br />Those who love the idea of women priests, so called gay marriage, and think sin has no consequences would find fault with the message from ChurchMilitant.tv. However, those who see the evil that has entered the church KNOW that souls are in peril. Mr. Voris has pointed many of the errors out. Things he has said on his show that gave me a moment of pause, I have verified is in fact Church teaching. <br /><br />So I guess the real question here is, what does Voris say that you disagree with? <br /><br /> Edgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15529635725427760062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5636389828900724226.post-42247768968239665162013-02-01T09:27:29.599-05:002013-02-01T09:27:29.599-05:00I understand what you're saying, Christine, bu...I understand what you're saying, Christine, but it is just wrong to say that the hierarchy of the Church - which is the priests and even more specifically bishops - are nothing but dead wood that need to be burned up, and the sooner the better. As I said in my post, it is our duty to hold the leaders in our Church responsible for their words and actions, but to say they need to be "burned up" is way out of line.<br /><br />Michael Voris says a lot of good things, and I was a paid subscriber to his website because I believed in him. But I cannot deny that he has gone too far with these statements, and they need to be recognized for what they are.Catholic in Brooklynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02714284710110785019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5636389828900724226.post-50446261042472689162013-02-01T09:04:38.216-05:002013-02-01T09:04:38.216-05:00Thank you for correcting your interpretation of &q...Thank you for correcting your interpretation of "strive."<br /><br />You wrote: "Voris shows absolutely no concern for the souls of those in the hierarchy in the Church..."<br /><br />You could not be more wrong about him. He is absolutely concerned about their souls, and in fact often encourages us to pray for the bishops. He is also very forthright in his praise of good bishops. His one aim is the salvation of souls, both inside and outside the Church. I know him, and this is absolutely the case. It greatly grieves him--as it should any Catholic--to see bishops leading their flock astray, endangering souls, by failing to teach the immorality of same-sex relationships, contraception, sex outside of marriage, etc. and he will indeed express that frustration in strong language--but that should never be taken to mean that he simply doesn't care about them. Christinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05205862627682998184noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5636389828900724226.post-28402978487133790012013-02-01T00:38:26.360-05:002013-02-01T00:38:26.360-05:00I mean yeah he says some tough stuff but at least ...I mean yeah he says some tough stuff but at least he's not out there like Fr. Barron saying everyone might end up in heaven. That is the epitome of false charity. Fr. Barron does a lot of good work and is very insightful and smart...but spreading the idea of universal salvation is worse than anything Voris has said that you have quoted. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11679981021081052320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5636389828900724226.post-1810110409485542072013-02-01T00:36:15.978-05:002013-02-01T00:36:15.978-05:00I dunno. I don't watch him that much but I th...I dunno. I don't watch him that much but I think if you read some of the saints throughout the centuries, they said a lot of things like he says. I agree that he shouldn't be judging people's souls but I don't know if he really means that. He's probably just saying, look at their fruits and this has been a bad harvest for the past 50 years or so. I don't think it's a stretch at all to say that most parishes in the West are terrible. That doesn't mean there aren't people in them that are trying to do good, but you have to look at reality and the reality ain't good. I don't think we've gotten very far these past few decades with being nice about this stuff. I think we need tough love more than false charity.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11679981021081052320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5636389828900724226.post-60498399536545987352013-02-01T00:12:41.801-05:002013-02-01T00:12:41.801-05:00@FidesSpesCaritas - You are absolutely right about...@FidesSpesCaritas - You are absolutely right about the statement concerning God striving with man. I misunderstood what Voris was saying and I have corrected it. <br /><br />Thank you.Catholic in Brooklynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02714284710110785019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5636389828900724226.post-30461262638568168632013-01-31T23:58:31.193-05:002013-01-31T23:58:31.193-05:00Christine, I think you are actually right about yo...Christine, I think you are actually right about your definition of "strive." What threw me is that I don't find the translation Voris gave anywhere, but I believe you are right and that he did mean this in a positive context, and I am going to make that correction in this post.<br /><br />However, there is no getting around the fact that he is completely dumping on the bishops and priests and just wants them all out of the way. It is just wrong to refer to anyone as "dead wood that should be cut off and thrown into the fire." This is very dangerous talk. We do need to hold those in authority accountable for their actions, but Voris has gone beyond that and actually said they need to be thrown out like dead branches. I certainly feel we need to fight the evil in the world and in the church. I just don't think we need to be fighting and condemning one another, and I have sadly come to the conclusion that this is what Michael Voris does. <br /><br />Look at the statement that he makes:<br /><br /><i>Too much of the establishment in the Church have turned to dead branches and the sooner they are cut off and become fuel for the fire .. the better for the rest of the vine.</i><br /><br />No one in this world has the right to make a judgment about any human being that they are "dead branches" and fit only as fuel for the fire. Only God has the right to make that judgment. Voris shows absolutely no concern for the souls of those in the hierarchy in the Church and is basically urging the rest of us to just turn our backs on those whom God has placed in leadership positions. This is very dangerous.<br /><br />We need to be about the business of saving souls, even souls within the church.Catholic in Brooklynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02714284710110785019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5636389828900724226.post-64786534530216579962013-01-31T23:06:34.399-05:002013-01-31T23:06:34.399-05:00That's funny, Charlotte, because Voris has don...That's funny, Charlotte, because Voris has done the exact opposite for me; he's helped me take my faith more seriously; he's caused me to fall more deeply in love with my faith, to pray more, to sacrifice more, to love God and to love souls more, and to show GREATER charity towards my neighbor--not less.<br /><br />I happen to know him & some on the board of directors of ChurchMilitant.TV personally, so I think I have a more accurate knowledge of what they are about--which is one thing: the salvation of souls. Voris is as good-hearted and humble a soul as you will find. Laugh if you will, but it's true--his heart is on fire with love for souls, and it is love for the Church that drives him. If you know his conversion story, you will understand why.<br /><br />For those who would like to better understand Voris the man (instead of Voris the caricature), I encourage you to listen to this interview he gave to Colleen Hammond last year:<br /><br />http://www.blogtalkradio.com/up-close/2012/05/01/up-close-with-michael-vorisChristinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05205862627682998184noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5636389828900724226.post-80016530298945876212013-01-31T22:31:34.256-05:002013-01-31T22:31:34.256-05:00So what are you saying Edge? Sin can't and wo...So what are you saying Edge? Sin can't and won't be tolerated unless it's the sin of the sainted Michael Voris and his acolytes?<br /><br />Poison is no less deadly masked in the wine of truth. The wine only makes the venom more palatable and it's effects more stealth.<br /><br />Idolize Michael Voris if you must, but you'll have to forgive my non-participation, from my view he's just a golden calf. <br /><br />Dismashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16914455567953306044noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5636389828900724226.post-69770234426408364972013-01-31T22:14:50.745-05:002013-01-31T22:14:50.745-05:00I know that I do not pray enough for my bishop and...I know that I do not pray enough for my bishop and all the bishops. My bishop, who I have reason to believe is a truly pious man, has made some very bad mistakes. Cannot say that I would have done any better if I had been in his shoes. My resolve is to pray more and rouse myself to write a personal letter to him the next time I have any concerns.Half Heathenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10241760741187417044noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5636389828900724226.post-52798922427687827852013-01-31T19:04:36.874-05:002013-01-31T19:04:36.874-05:00Too bad a Voris troll has taken over this discussi...Too bad a Voris troll has taken over this discussion, which is always what happens when anything remotely anti-Voris makes the rounds.<br /><br />Anyway, I have been incredibly damaged by watching Voris videos and pal-ing around with similar minded in the Catholic blogosphere. I went from someone who reverted in a spirit of desiring truth to a mean spirited judgemental jerk that cast an eye of suspicion on anyone and anything labeled Catholic. <br />It was soul destroying and uncharitable, and I almost despaired of my Catholic faith for quite some time.<br /><br />What you've written here I am grateful for. It reminds me to keep my eyes on my own paper and that Christ's love is the ultimate conversion tool. Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners.Charlottehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13978540582978450208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5636389828900724226.post-55333033843246184462013-01-31T18:36:56.439-05:002013-01-31T18:36:56.439-05:00Edge, heretical? Really? That's what you thi...Edge, heretical? Really? That's what you think this is about? First, let's think about why he changed his letter head. All his combox acolytes immediately tried to defend him, with a bold face lie, and say that their self-canonized saint was only making a smart business move. Yeah, that's it, he was spending thousands of dollars to suit his new business plan, they still do. You yourself have already self-canonized him in a previous post and then wonder if I think he's a heretic because I criticize him for his obvious distortions of truth? Not even you can detect a problem with balance and perception asking that question?<br /><br />This article does a very good job highlighting many distortions of truth (lies?)in just ONE of his videos. He presents things as Gospel truth that he can't and doesn't know. His accusations and detractions are beyond the pale. He DOES NOT call a spade a spade. He sees a spade and calls it a bulldozer.<br /><br />No, I don't watch Voris videos. I have my own struggle with sins of detraction, perception and lying, I see no need to participate in his or yours. Dismashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16914455567953306044noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5636389828900724226.post-30975416621779209362013-01-31T18:04:59.164-05:002013-01-31T18:04:59.164-05:00The Catechism states that charity obliges us to in...The Catechism states that charity obliges us to interpret others' statements in the best light possible.<br /><br />You have unfortunately misconstrued a number of things Voris has said. His statement about God delighting to "strive" with man was meant in a positive context, which he clearly explains in one of the talks he gave in Canada earlier this year (I believe it's this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33pwV5bnc-I). He meant it in the sense of "work strenously with" or "endeavor with"--in a mutual relationship of friendship and love.<br /><br />You wrote: "But it is not our job to judge any one's soul and then to actually rejoice when they 'get what they deserve.' "<br /><br />NOWHERE does Voris claim any particular person is going to hell, nor would he ever rejoice over that prospect. What he rejoices over is the downfall of organizations or structures that have misled the faithful and harmed the Church. <br /><br />You also said that "no one" should refer to others as dead branches. Well, considering Voris is merely repeating the words of Our Lord Himself, who refers to others as "dead branches" that need to be pruned, you are implicitly condemning Jesus for using that language.<br /><br />You also objected to Voris's message that we need to fight spiritual battles: "Jesus defeated Satan through His Death on the Cross. He is the one who fights. Our job is to preach His Message."<br /><br />I can only think you must be joking here. Are you not aware of Eph. 6:10-17, which is replete with imagery involving spiritual warfare that applies to us--sword, armor, breastplate, arrows? This is a spiritual battle, and we are called to fight, to wage war against sin and against the diabolical, through prayer, sacrifice, preaching, and teaching. Scripture explicitly tells us to "fight the good fight of the faith." 1 Tim. 6:12 <br /><br />It is simply false for you to state that we are NOT called to fight; you explicitly contradict Scripture in saying that.Christinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05205862627682998184noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5636389828900724226.post-47278464579618107872013-01-31T17:16:07.026-05:002013-01-31T17:16:07.026-05:00I love my bishop and I love listening to Michael V...I love my bishop and I love listening to Michael Voris. This is not all that he talks about. I need him to counteract the toilet bowl of anti-Catholic depressing media that surrounds me. My faith as a Catholic is unwavering; his commentary is the only thing I can tolerate lately and I find it interesting. Artax57https://www.blogger.com/profile/14497611860367289957noreply@blogger.com