Wednesday, June 18, 2014

Michael Voris Calls For The Destruction Of The Catholic Church


UPDATE: Thanks to PewSitter linking to me, I am getting tons of Voris supporters commenting here. Could at least one of you please respond to the actual points I make? Do you still believe the Catholic hierarchy, no matter how you may feel about them personally, are duly ordained priests and bishops? Or do you agree with Voris that they are evil, that we as laity have the right to judge their souls, and decide that they must be destroyed? And what gives you the right to condemn our bishops and priests and even the Holy Father?

Every time I think that Michael Voris can't get any more radical than he is, he surprises me. Now he has actually called for Catholics to stop financially supporting their churches and dioceses.

In a recent Vortex episode, which you can watch HERE if you really want to subject yourself to it, Voris again discussed the situation at Holy Innocents Church in New York City, once again accusing Church hierarchy, and specifically Cardinal Dolan, of hating and trying to stamp out Catholic Traditionalists.  I have already been through this on previous blog posts and don't wish to rehash it at this point.

Suffice it to say that Voris is using the circumstances here in New York to push his point that the "establishment" Catholic Church is dying,
Do you see what’s going on here? The Church in America is on her last legs. And the battle royale is on – the fight for the soul of what’s left. On the one side the small but growing population of Catholics .. in fact, the only place where there is growth, the tradition minded. Unfortunately, they have no power.
As Voris would have us believe, "tradition minded" Catholics are the only Catholics who still have the faith.  Everyone else is a CINO - Catholic In Name Only.  But why don't the "real Catholics" have any power in the Church?
That’s because the Protestant minded, homosexual friendly, man-centered crowd that took over the chanceries parishes seminaries hospitals and universities in the 1970’s has never been dislodged.
You see, the real enemies of true Catholics is the Church hierarchy - those who are responsible for our souls.  We must do everything possible to take them out because all they really want to do is destroy the Church.  And Voris assures us that this evil hierarchy "will get theirs":
But they are falling victim to their own success. Desiring to re-make the Church they have largely succeeded and they are now reaping their rewards.

But the sorry truth is, they are going to try and ride into their sorry sunset with their crushing debt and faithless parishes on the backs of the only truly completely faithful Catholics left.
And, as Voris tells us, this is not something that should be mourned. These evil men in the Church hierarchy - the bishops and priests - deserve exactly what they have coming to them. Just look at all the horrible things they have done. It truly is a miracle that any part of the Church is still standing:
They have stood silent and sometimes preached affirmatively on contraception, abortion, active homosexuality. They have abandoned the Gospel truth to accommodate the heresies of Protestantism and Modernism.

They have done all in their power to eradicate ANYTHING and EVERYTHING that points to the Church’s tradition – from liturgy, to education, to proper moral instruction, to breaking canon law and just about any other area of Church life you point to.

And now they are going broke. SHOCKING! Well, the few remaining Catholics who have suffered at the hands of these prelates, professors, priests, liberal chancery personnel, feminized men – all of whom will roll out the red carpet for any wacked out theology that presents itself – all under the cover of charity – are not gonna take this any more.
How does Voris propose that the "few remaining Catholics" (all of whom, of course, think just like Michael Voris, who is the personification of "loyal Catholic") react to the "dying Church of America"? Should we fast and pray? Should we offer up our suffering on behalf of the Church?

No, nothing as mundane as all of that.  We have to hit the evil establishment Church where it hurts the most - in the pocketbook:
Since money seems to be the only thing that motivates the Establishment Church – it is more than time for the faithful to begin withholding contributions. Why give money to a diocese that is gonna use that money to keep the status quo going – to abuse faithful Catholics while supporting fake Catholics – parishes and individuals.

And just in case you're not sure:  "faithful Catholics" means everyone who thinks like and agrees with Michael Voris.  "Fake Catholics" are all of those who do not think like and actually are evil enough to disagree with Michael Voris.  

So here is good, faithful Catholic Michael Voris exhorting other good and faithful Catholics to willfully withhold financial support from the church in order that the "establishment" church dies, which is all for a good cause - to get rid of the evil hierarchy.

And all of you good and faithful Catholics who are fighting against the ordained hierarchy of the Catholic Church - don't feel that you are really doing anything wrong. You are just hastening along the inevitable and actually making way for a "purified" Church:
The whole thing is gonna blow up anyway – the sooner the better. What will emerge from the rubble is a purified Church, doctrinally, liturgically, morally, devotionally and clerically. Too bad Catholics didn’t know this about 50 years ago.


What happened 50 years ago?  Oh yes - the Second Vatican Council.  If only Michael Voris had been around 50 years ago to give this great advice to withhold financial support from the Church.  Maybe Vatican II would have never happened and we wouldn't be in this colossal mess!

Ah, but no use crying over spilled milk.  Let's just do what we can now to make things right in the Church:
But that was then, this is now. Simply stop giving your money to the Establishment Church. Forget the diocesan pledge drives, forget the so-called social justice initiatives, like CRS and CCHD. Let them get their money from the government, whose interests they serve over and above the Church’s anyway.
You see, we are really helping those in charge by withholding financial support.  In fact, to give financial support to the "establishment" church is actually just enabling their wickedness.  By withholding financial support, we are practicing tough love, just like we would use with anyone with a destructive addiction.  This is what will help the evil hierarchy to wake up:
Maybe then, those in charge of this massive meltdown will finally wake up. Giving the Establishment Church and any group that supports it is like enabling an alcoholic.
Normally, we don't believe in euthanasia, but in this case it is a good thing:
Like the old adage goes – feed a cold, starve a fever. The Establishment Church has a death bed fever. Time to starve it. Maybe then the homosexualists in power throughout the Church will think twice before trying to go after the few faithful Catholics left.
You silly Catholics who actually thought prayer was the way to go. How could you be so naive? We've got to financially starve the Church to death. That is the only way to save her.

In all seriousness, I just don't remember seeing anywhere in scripture or Church teaching that it is the responsibility of the laity to "take out" church hierarchy whom they deem unfit by withholding financial support.  If followed, this action would lead to the total collapse of the Church:  no parishes, no priests, no Masses, no sacraments.  And that, of course, would lead to NO SALVATION.  We can rest assured that Our Lord will never allow this to happen, but if taken to its logical conclusion and without divine intervention, this would be the result of the action proposed by Voris.

Further, it is actually sinful for a Catholic to willfully withhold financial support from the Church.  

From "The Commandments of the Church" from dailycatholic.org:
The chief commandments, or laws, of the Church are these six:
1. To assist at Holy Mass on all Sundays and holydays of obligation.
2. To fast and to abstain on the days appointed.
3. To confess our sins at least once a year.
4. To receive Holy Communion during the Easter time.
5. To contribute to the support of the Church.
6. To observe the laws of the Church concerning marriage.
To use a favorite Voris phrase, it boggles the mind that anyone could call himself a "loyal Catholic" and at the same time urge other Catholics to stop supporting the Catholic Church. Voris has many times called for priests and bishops to leave and/or be fired. Does anyone see anything wrong with this? Catholics have always been exhorted to pray for those in leadership positions, not wish them in the cornfield.

Voris defends this apparently heretical position by stating that the institutional Church that we see is a fake. He does not tell us by what authority he makes this judgment and condemnation. Yes, there are problems in the Church. But when hasn't that been true? What about England at the time of Henry VIII when all but one bishop denounced Rome? What about the Arian heresy which basically took over the Church? In 2000 years of history, does anyone really believe this is the first time there has been a crisis of belief in the Church?

Our Lord gave us fallible human beings to run the Church. We have seen their weaknesses since the founding of the Church in the first century. Our first pope was a coward who literally denied our Lord. I wonder if Voris has ever heard this scripture: "My strength is made perfect in weakness." (II Cor. 12:9). These were the words of Jesus Christ to St. Paul when St. Paul begged Our Lord to remove an unidentified but heavy cross he was carrying. Our glory should always be in the Lord, never in ourselves. He is our strength, He is our salvation. Often when things look the worst is the time when Our Lord shows Himself most powerfully.

We are in a time of testing. There is no doubt of that. We are in the boat in the middle of the lake during a fierce storm, just as the apostles were with the sleeping Christ. The apostles were sure they were going to drown. They could not understand how Jesus could just sleep and not care what was happening to them.

Is that how we feel? Do we think Jesus has gone to sleep and is letting the Church just go to hell in a handbasket? Remember the words of Jesus Christ, "Oh ye of little faith. Why are you so afraid?" (Matthew 8:26). Why are we so afraid? Why would we even listen to the heretical words of someone like Michael Voris who says we must disobey the Church in order to "save" her? Remember, the Church was saved 2000 years ago when Christ died on the cross and then rose from the dead. As Our Lord said in His last dying words, "It is finished."  (Just to clarify:  although the Church is saved, we as individuals are still working on our salvation and will be until our last moment on earth.)

Please stop listening to the likes of Michael Voris. He is a danger to souls. He says to stop supporting the Church hierarchy financially because they are destroying the Church. For any of you who are sending him money, you might want to think about who is really hurting the Church and who really does or does not deserve your money.

The Church is the Mystical Body of Jesus Christ. Those are not just words. It is not a symbol or a nice image. It is the truth. When St. Paul, as Saul, was persecuting the Church, Jesus said to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?" (Acts 9:4).  To persecute the Church is to persecute Christ.  We are His Body, a part of Him. He will always take care of us.

Is Jesus Christ saying to Michael Voris, "Michael, Michael, why are you persecuting me?"




41 comments:

  1. "In all seriousness, I just don't remember seeing anywhere in scripture or Church teaching that it is the responsibility of the laity to "take out" church hierarchy whom they deem unfit by withholding financial support." Actually, we are called to be good stewards of our money and we shouldn't knowingly be supporting immoral organizations like the CCHD. I still support my parish Church and donate the rest to Orthodox orders that I can trust. As usual, Voris is spot on, which drives the Church of Nice into their usual spittle flicked nutties.

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    1. Do you realize you are combining Michael Voris and Father Z rhetoric? You can't come up with your own way of expressing yourself?

      The validity of Church authority is not in any way dependent upon the spiritual state of our priests and bishops. We know that a priest in mortal sin can still validly celebrate the Mass, hear confessions and absolve sin, baptize, marry, etc. The Catholic Church does not suddenly stop being the Catholic Church because a bishop or priest is not acting and speaking in ways that we approve. Their authority is given to them by the Holy Spirit, and only He, through the Church, can remove that authority. Unless and until that happens, we are obligated to support our parishes and dioceses so that the sacraments can still be given, priests can still be ordained, and the people have access to the Blessed Sacrament.

      Voris is constantly complaining about the "shrinking" Catholic Church. Here in NYC we are experiencing many church closings which is fast becoming a source of division in the Church. Yet, to follow Voris' advice will excel this process even more. We are obligated, under Church command, to support our local parish and diocese. We are not obligated to support such organizations as CCHD. if you wish to withhold your money from that organization, that is entirely within your right.

      But Voris is telling us to go against the clear teaching of the Church and withhold our money from the Church herself. That is an unequivocal call for the destruction of the Church. And that can only come from one source, and it is not the Holy Spirit.

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    2. Voris is doing no such thing, you're being ridiculous. He is just asking us to be prudent in our tithing. If you donate to your annual diocese fund drive, some of that money will eventually make its way to suspect organizations such as the CCHD, Catholic Charities and Catholic Relief Services. That's a FACT, and no way we should let that happen. By the way, in my defense Fr. Z likes to say "spittle feckled nutty" not "spittle flicked nutty", that's feckled not flickle....ha!

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    3. And just what do you call this statement?

      "Like the old adage goes – feed a cold, starve a fever. The Establishment Church has a death bed fever. Time to starve it."

      Starving something means to kill it, and that is exactly what Voris is proposing. No one here wants to admit that because then you will be forced to admit the truth about your hero. But your hero wants to destroy the church because, as he freely says,

      "The whole thing is gonna blow up anyway – the sooner the better."

      Do you honestly believe any of this is said under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit? Are these the words Our Blessed Mother uses when she intervenes for us before Her Son?

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    4. "What about England at the time of Henry VIII when all but one bishop denounced Rome?" GLAD YOU ASKED. The Novus Ordo church has recently formalized a lengthy document in which they declared the war against Martin Luther as over. It was signed by Protestant leaders and our church prelates. They plan to jointly celebrate Luther's jubilee in 2017. They have also embraced Modernism officially in that document. St. Thomas More was beheaded for not agreeing with this--which you should already know. Again, consider whether or not the Novus Ordo church you belong to is really Catholic. God gave you a conscience and the ability to distinguish right from wrong. He expects you to use it. Unless you're anesthetized, I don't see how you can deny it much longer. Remember, BVM predicted that the church would run astray for a time as a test of our faith, but the Remnant will remain faithful and order will be restored through her. All that remains is for you to decide which "church" you want to belong to. If you chose the Remnant, you're in for a life of persecution and marginalization. It won't be a church of popularity and visibility. So get used to it.

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  2. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  3. Dear "Catholic in Brooklyn": Michael Voris is largely correct. In fact, Cardinal Dolan is not an effective leader, and has caused scandal by his inappropriate behavior in the yuck-it-up Al Smith dinner with our abortion-loving President Obama. Further, Voris does not say not to contribute to anything in the Church, but to skip giving money (which is power) to Church leaders that ignore the Faith. Take a look at Bishop Athanasius Schneider, who openly praises the internet, which gives the great majority of previously ignored Catholics a new voice. Too bad that so many bishops and cardinals don't like to be criticized; much more will be coming. Perhaps then they will pay attention to things from the Popes, like Summorum Pontificum and Veterum Sapientia, among others. Voris is blunt, but accurate; the Church is drifting away from the Faith. For those that want changes to: women priests, homosexual marriage, sexual ethics in general, and abortion rights -- join the Episcopalian Church, which would be happy to have you. The anticipated closing of Holy Innocents is seen by many, many Catholics as a craven move by the Cardinal to further crush the Tradition that he so despises (although the Saints seem to have found the "Traditional" sacraments just fine). Nope, find other Catholic venues that deserve your funding; do not be a slave to dissembling Church leadership any longer.

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    1. It would seem from reading this piece and the comments that you are in the minority. I will join you, I believe everything that you have stated. There is no doubt that the devil is at work in the Holy Mother Church, the good news is he will not win. but sadly he will take many souls with him.

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  4. Thank you for pointing me to the Michael Voris video. He is spot on! Please continue to pray for the success of his apostolate and for faithful shepherds in the Church.

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  5. Michael Voris is totally correct. As someone who travels a great deal I cannot tell you the numbers of Obama Biden bumper stickers I see at the establishment church of nice localities.
    These are catholics that continue to vote for someone that supports baby killing and homosexual "marriage" whereby killing themselves.
    Mike Voris didn't say to withhold from the Catholic church, but rather the "church of nice" that speed being Catholic long ago.
    Our money can be given to orthodox Catholic orders of nuns and brothers. That's still the church.
    Of we continue to give to the dying fruit of the church of nice, who give your money to Antilife, prosodomite conglomerates like the Catholic campaign for human development (CCHD) or CRS the sun of cooperation with evil is likely.
    Anti traditional "LGBT mass" supporting ddioceses should never be given money until they become Catholic again.

    Given my diocese seems more interested in early "social justice" concerns like making illegal immigration "legal" is clear they just want more money. Unfortunately, the illegal immigrants are leaving the church of nice faster than Anglos.

    I give my money to a Local monastic community do they can rebuild and increase their capacity.
    Again, nowhere did Voris state to withhold from the Catholic church, but rather the protestant church of nice.

    Basic economics.

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    1. Thank you God, I spoke too soon, it appears that there are people responding to this commentary that really do understand what is, and has been happening to our Church for some time. I have to ask myself and perhaps some of you, why even respond to this blog. It is a waste of time and he, or she has really no respect for our thoughts.

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  6. We are absolutely not obliged to follow the heretical teachings of a bishop, priest, and nun. I will NOT financially support a Church undertaking if that activity supports programs that are pro-abortion, pro-contraception, and pro-gay agenda. In other words, if such activities are anti-Catholic, either directly or indirectly (because cash is fungible). When they come calling I do not remain quiet. I let them know by email or by phone why. One thing I have learned from progressive priests and lay folks: they do not being exposed for what they are.

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  7. My husband gave a retreat talk recently on "Radiating Christ in Our Parishes" and he showed how parishes are not radiating Christ and most parishes are moral cesspools. The audio is only 35 minutes at http://www.presentationministries.com/player/playerPopup.asp?mp3ID=2884 Two couples present got the disc to give to their pastor.
    Sheila Kippley

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  8. All of these comments, with more to come, I'm sure, tell me that there is a real danger of a great schism coming in the Church, and people like Michael Voris will be at the root of it.

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    1. You continue -- like Saul Alinsky -- to attack the messenger, even though what he says is essentially correct. The NYC Diocese, and many, many others are barely Catholic in their liturgy, catechism, and general operations. Come to Church as a homofascist bomb-thrower, man-hating feminist who demands to be a priest, or a woman claiming a "right to decide" what stays in her body (and insisting she has a moral right to abort it), and the Dolan-ite type clergy cannot be "pastoral" enough. Come to the bishop (or cardinal) in humility and ask for compliance with Summorum Pontificum and watch out: abuse is coming (along with demands for "obedience"). And look at your "Catholic" Governor, dealing legislatively to permit abortion-for-any-reason (at any time), homosexual marriage, and living with is enamorata, yet claiming to be a practicing Catholic: and, Cardinal Dolan says, essentially, that Cuomo is a Catholic in good standing. This is a complete joke, and all Catholics know it. Nope, no one is going to give their time and treasure to such apostacy.

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    2. I find it amazing that people get so upset that anyone would dare criticize Michael Voris, but they feel they can say anything they want about ordained bishops and priests of the Catholic Church and actually judge their souls.

      This is the effect that Voris is having on people, and he will have to answer for it.

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    3. "...and he will have to answer for it."
      This is a typical threat from AmChurch.
      They pretend to be so "nice and non-judgmental" until you cross them and their agenda. Then its attack, attack, attack!

      This post is a calumnious embarrassment.

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    4. “Who is going to save our Church? Not our bishops, not our priests and religious. It is up to you, the people. You have the minds, the eyes, the ears to save the Church. Your mission is to see that your priests act like priests, your bishops like bishops, and your religious act like religious.”~Ven. Fulton Sheen, 1972

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    5. I hear this "quote" from Bishop Sheen all the time, but no one can ever tell me when and where he said it. Can you?

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    6. The issue is not Michael Voris. As mentioned earlier, a true defender of the Traditional and True Catholic Faith is Bishop Athanasius Schneider. You consisttly mistake criticism for disbelief. In fact, there is a right and duty to speak out as laity, See Canon 212 §2,3, among others. Bishops have a very cushy existence, and many do little to earn, or maintain, their splendid lifestyles. Cardinal Dolan is near the top of those that like to party, like to appear important, like to quash even the devout Traditionalists (see what he did to good visiting priest Justin Wylie from South Africa, who spoke out passionately against discrimination toward Tradition). And, of course, Cardinal Dolan not only wants to eliminate the TLM, but he wants to "merge" Holy Innocents into homosexual-friendly St. Francis Xavier; Man, that will teach them Traditionalists that I'm in charge here! What a complete hypocrite.

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    7. Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen as quoted above: Address to the Knights of Columbus at the 90th Supreme Council Convention - Toronto, Ontario - June 1972

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    8. I have looked it up and don't find anything on this. Do you have a link of any kind?

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  9. Unfortunately, ths bishops got around individual objections to their politics by getting billions of dollars a year from the taxpayer - by force.

    That's correct - "billions." They don't need voluntary donations any more. Cardinal Bernardin saw the writing on the wall and they've been milking the taxpayer ever since.

    I would not endorse Mr. Voris's counsel; rather, I would encourage, positively, that good people donate only to causes and organizations which they can personally oversee, check up on, and influence. Local local local. That's what it's all about.

    Your soup kitchen. Your free clinic. Your pregnancy center. Let the government do its thing with its prelate friends, and let us go in joy and freedom to voluntarily support the many good people that are still out there, who don't get any taxpayer money.

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    1. Where do you get your information from? Sure doesn't seem very credible. I don't think even Michael Voris would say the bishops get "billions" from the government.

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  10. "Calls For The Destruction", Oh dear Jesus, who wrote the headline?

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    1. That's what happens when you read too much Mark Shea.

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    2. Uggh. Mark Shea is one of the meanest bloggers in the church of nice.
      Him and Karl Keating regularly rip into anyone that Whiffs of tradition.
      Yet Keating and his "Catholic Answers" regularly ban people for questioning any of the novelties of today's craziness in the church

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  11. Yes, don't pay any attention to this man behind the curtain: http://www.crisismagazine.com/2014/whats-behind-pelosis-attack-archbishop-cordileone . Go after Voris for an internet video supposedly calling for the Destruction of the Church. Is it nice in your version of reality?

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  12. The Church is in a great purging of those not completely with Christ. The faction to be feared in NOT Voris. It is those who water down or obfuscate Church Teaching. Voris has said nothing that is "anti-Church". He has said nothing that the Fathers and Doctors of the Church haven't already said. So, don;t be a chicken little and bemoan those who call it as it is. The Church, as pope Benedict once said, will be much smaller but more holier. Who am I to disagree with that?

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    1. In my former unfaithful and 'liberal' diocese, I gave directly at the parish office and earmarked the money for certain needed things there. The money did not go to the diocese. After a gay priest was sent and I could no longer tolerate the liturgical abuses, I moved from my hometown to a more faithful diocese and parish where I can worship in peace. Also I now have access to a Sunday Traditional Latin Mass where there is actually reverence, devotion, true teaching and preaching and that is a welcome change. We have good priests and I appreciate the great availability of sacraments with daily Mass and confessions offered. I know how fortunate I am to be in this place. When I travel I see what some other parishes are like and I would not give them a dime.

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  13. I think you misunderstand the "support of the church" precept.
    The amount is a free will donation. So, if I want to give 100% of my donation to the Electric Company for the bill on my parish, I can.
    In fact, if you go to the actual teaching in the Catechism, it doesn't even demand cash.

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  14. Other than the fact that you don't like Voris, what's your point? Whether you like it or not, he's spot on. I know of a particular priest who was specifically told by his Bishop not to have the parish march in the Gay Pride Parade. In other words, if you want to march fine, just don't drag the Church into it. He and members of his church marched with a banner identifying themselves as such and such parish. If you did this in private business, you'd be out on the street. Personally, I'd have re-assigned Fr. Protestor to a nice little parish in Outer Mongolia. Yet nothing happened.
    BTW: I can still meet my tithe by sending $ to good, faithful Catholic organizations such as Priests for Life or the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter, etc. St. Nicholas punched Arius in the face at Nicaea...now we have group hugs with heretics. Wake up and smell the coffee.

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  15. I listened to part of Voris' commentary. As I generally find myself wanting to ask of him, "Tell me something I haven't heard yet in the last forty years, and tell me in half the time," I rarely get through the entire thing. Thankfully, I know from my usual reliable sources what he said. I also know what I'd say, and (unlike some people) in my own words.

    The Compendium of the Catechism of the Catholic Church mentions the precept in question thus: "You shall help to provide for the needs of the Church." The usual understanding of that term is that one does so through one's own parish, and/or the local church (diocese). Those of Holy Innocents who demonstrated that understanding, by digging deep into their pockets for the restoration of the church interior, have learned how the Archdiocese of New York shows its gratitude. Their shepherd compounds the insult by leaving untouched, any dire plans for nearby St Francis Xavier, a parish that has persisted in the promotion of heinous sins against nature, amounting to the promulgation of heresy.

    Prudence and (a pointed definition of) charity demand a like response from those of Holy Innocents. Those who have financial resources in abundance will be quick to tell you, that it is a language of the laity that the sacred pastors of the Church truly understand -- as often as not, the ONLY language. The beleaguered parish should seek out the justice of the Church, and make their appeal to Rome. In the meantime, they should extend their arms all the more to the poor and others in need, acting through Church-related efforts whenever possible. Their fellow-Catholics in Cleveland have won their appeals on more than one occasion. It can be done.

    As one might say in Brooklyn, the "Innocentes" are "still in this ball game."

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  16. Let's let Rome handle it. If Holy Innocents appeals the decision, Rome will land on their side.

    With all due respect Cath. in Brkln, you still leave me confused as to why the NY AD is choosing to close HI.

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  17. Dear Protestant In Brooklyn: I'm suggesting you rename your column to more accurately reflect the tone of your musings. Crack open your CCC and get re-reacquainted with the true teachings of the Catholic Church. And let me remind you of this admonition from one of the greatest American Catholics: Bishop Fulton
    Sheen said,“Who is going to save our Church? Not our bishops and religious. It is to you, the people(LAITY). You have the minds, the eyes, the ears to save the Church. Your mission is to see that your priests act as priests, your bishops like bishops, and your religious act like religious.” (Address to the
    Knights of Columbus – June 1972)

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    1. I would like for you to point out just one statement in my post that is in opposition to the teachings of the Catholic Church. Is it the fact that the Church is the Mystical Body of Christ? Is it that bishops and priests are given their authority from the Holy Spirit? Is it that Christ said He would never leave His Church? Just what is it that makes me "Protestant"?

      Protestants are people who reject the authority of the Catholic Church. They refuse to recognize our priests, our bishops and our Popes. That is exactly what I am seeing among all of the people who have left comments here today. You all feel that you have a right to speak out against Church authority in any way you want to because you do not recognize them as legitimate. Welcome to the world of the Protestants.

      As far as the quote from Venerable Bishop Sheen: I have looked this up and cannot find it anywhere. In fact, no one can find this speech anywhere. I did find this On a website called sedevacantist.com (no, I am not making it up), someone wrote this:

      I am part of a Catholic moms homeschooling group... one of the ladies in the group posted this in our forum:

      "My husband and I are having a discussion and the quote by Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen to the Knights of Columbus, June 1972 came up. “Who is going to save our Church? Not our bishops, not our priests and religious. It is up to you, the people. You have the minds, the eyes, the ears to save the Church. Your mission is to see that your priests act like priests, your bishops, like bishops, and your religious act like religious.” "

      Does anyone know if +Sheen truly said these words, and if so, in what context and where? All I can find in google is the above quote."

      The closest thing she got for an answer was this:

      "Hi Larie,

      I tried to figure this out, and the quote is all over the internet, but I have not been able to find a copy of the speech either in writing, audio or video. It does, though, sound like something he would say. +Sheen was not happy at all with the liberal changes after Vatican II.

      This site gives the most extensive archive of his works but it does not date the material. A lot of the audio files are free, and it is possible that the Knights of Columbus (1972) speech could be buried somewhere in the material. If I do come across anything else I will post it here for you. http://www.fultonsheen.com/Fulton-Sheen ... m?artid=19"

      You can go to this site here:

      http://sedevacantist.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1303

      No one no where on the Internet has the speech that this quote supposedly came from. Also, I have listened to hundreds of hours of Bishop Sheen and read a fair amount of his writings. I know that he often repeats things in speeches, sermons and talks. Never, never have I heard anything like this statement in anything I have heard or read from him, and neither has anyone else.

      This has been a most enlightening day for me. I have been attacked by those who represent themselves as the best of all Catholics, the "few remaining Catholics" as Voris would describe you. Yet, you attack the church you say that you love as being a great false church that needs to be destroyed.

      All of you who have posted here today have only proven the point of my post. Thank you, and I will pray for you.

      Delete
  18. Dear Catholic in Brooklyn,
    Thank you for your blog and your courage. Somewhere along the way after Vatican II some of those who truly loved the Vetus Ordo believed what Ratzinger said about Vatican II never having been truly implemented and prayed for the day and stayed faithful. Hard work, discernment, courage and tears were the norm but never, ever leave Rome and the Holy Father. Others, family members especially keep this bitterness before my eyes, have transformed into crass, bitter, nasty, arrogant Pharisees. Holier than the Pope? What Pope "I" think the Chair is empty. Poof, the Chair is empty; I have spoken.
    These unfortunate people have gotten high on the thin air they breathe looking down on the struggle. The hatred occasionally leaks out and it's a terrifying thing to behold in people who claim to be the True Church; why aren't they encouraging hours of prayer and adoration instead of hours of stirring up bitterness and resentment? This division is worse than the first.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It wasn't that long ago that I was one of those people you describe, and I think I still have a lot of that in me. That is what I am working through, and it is only the power of the Holy Spirit that can bring any of us to the truth.

      The worst sin in the world is pride because pride locks out the Holy Spirit. When we think we have all the answers, then even God cannot break through. "To this man will I look, he who is of humble and contrite spirit."

      Thank you so much for your words of encouragement. I understand your situation, and I have found that spoken words will get us nowhere in situations like that. We have to let the Holy Spirit work.

      God bless you.

      Delete
  19. I think you are just trying to cause trouble where there is none. M. Voris never said he was without sin in fact he says just the opposite. So many of us are just like the pharisees. Please stop it. Read the Divine Comedy and you'll all be enlightened.

    ReplyDelete
  20. CIB,
    You mention
    "The Arian heresy which basically took over the Church".
    There is a growing belief that what we are currently experiencing in The Church today is very similar situation. Just consider Cannon 915 and the pro-abortion Catholics in public office. What other time in church history have Bishops simply ignored Cannon law to such an extent? The contraception elephant in the living room is another example. I have never heard the Church dogmatic teaching on the subject spoken of in church, Never. It appears you live in a genuine Catholic enclave in Brooklyn. You are blessed, and are a minute minority of the Church at this point.

    A clear understanding of papal infallibility and defining true virtuous obedience for the laity are contemporary Catholic issues that Voris and others are helping the church hammer out for her 3rd millennium. It is understandable if it seems threatening to those who by happenstance find themselves living in a simpler Brooklyn throw back Catholic community. You would be a fool not to fully embrace what you have, many of us do not have anything even close.
    There is no way that Voris would have the support that he has if he were just a crank or material heretic.

    ReplyDelete
  21. I'm not sure what happened to my prior comment, so I'll say it again:

    I think that ignoring rampant heresy in the Church is actually sinful. Directing us to only donate our money to faithful hierarchs sounds more like a call to holiness.

    Based on M. Voris' words I'm going to stop donating to my parish until it supports Masses that are reverently celebrated. I'll donate all of my money to the FSSP.

    ReplyDelete

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