Saturday, April 23, 2016

When Will Michael Voris Stop Hating Himself?


Michael Voris devotes a major part of his self-proclaimed apostolate to trying to destroy anyone in the Catholic Church who shows any compassion or empathy for homosexuals.  Voris especially goes after Catholic priests and bishops, the majority of whom, according to Voris, are either homosexual or "homosexualist." There are a lot of problems in the Catholic Church, but according to Michael Voris, most of the problems mainly center around the "homosexual agenda." Following is an excerpt from a "Vortex" episode from January 11, 2016:
"Here is the situation in a nutshell: The American Catholic Church is largely controlled by homosexual clergy and their allies. Those not in the network are powerless to confront it owing to its vast influence and fear factor, as well as not really understanding how it operates. The Catholic establishment media won't get within a million miles of this issue of the homosexual collective because they too are scared."
Voris seems unable to differentiate between showing respect and compassion for homosexuals and condoning homosexuality. He seems to view one action as equivalent to the other.



In July, 2015, Voris smeared Detroit's Sacred Heart Seminary with the following in a Vortex episode entitled, "Gay Priest Cavalcade"
A faculty member priest in Sacred Heart Seminary here in Detroit recently made an announcement to the entire seminary student collective — about 60 young men — that they need to be sure and wear their bathrobes coming out of the bathroom showers instead of just towels because a number of their brother seminarians are gay, and the guys in towels are occasions of sin for the gay guys.
If you have successfully picked your jaw up off the floor and are ready to ask if you heard that right — you did. Another faculty member told a class that the seminary accepts men with homosexual pasts.
Kathy Schiffer, in her Patheos blog, pointed out the fallacy in Voris's statement:
I obtained a copy of a redacted statement which was sent to seminary faculty, responding to Voris’ charges. According to the Sacred Heart Seminary administration,
Sacred Heart adheres absolutely to the Church’s teaching regarding those who experience SSA. Unfortunately, Voris did not check the story with the formator whose alleged comments he quoted. The formator did not use the term “gay,” but rather “same-sex attracted.” He asked men to wear bathrobes to the shower for the sake of decorum and charity. As an example of potential uncharity he said, “What if unknowingly one of your brothers suffered from SSA? Your lack of modesty would be uncharitable considering your neighbor’s needs.” The men understood this completely.
Who could be so naive as to think that among a group of sixty men, even devout men who are hoping to serve the Church as priests, none has faced the temptation toward homosexuality? There may be a seminarian who hasn’t even realized that he is homosexual, or who is hiding it.
However, the Seminary’s statement continues with a straightforward denial:
…the claim that there is a significant or even nominal presence of homosexuality at Sacred Heart Major Seminary is patently false.”
Unfortunately, Voris has never allowed the facts to stand in the way of his arguments. The sad part is that he truly believes what he says and promotes his "misunderstanding" which is then accepted by his followers as fact.  These followers then join Voris in his jihad against Church hierarchy.  This is most definitely not the work of the Holy Spirit.



One of Michael Voris's favorite targets is Cardinal Timothy Dolan, whom he has accused countless times of supporting and promoting the "homosexual agenda."  I have shown the fallacies and lies in Voris's arguments many times over the years.  Just a couple of months ago Voris threatened to come to the New York Archdiocese and personally "clean house".  The following is a public statement made by Michael Voris to the New York Archdiocese in a January, 2016 show:
"You clear out that homosexual collective running the Church in New York and in many other places around the country or we and faithful Catholics all around the county will clear it out for you."
Just how does Voris propose to "clear it out"?  Is he making personal threats?  Voris has no authority to make such threats, and if the Archdiocese wanted to, they could take Voris to court over making such personal threats, and they would more than likely win.


But this is not the first time Voris has crossed the line in making personal threats against Cardinal Dolan, as pointed out by Dr. Gerard Nadal in this September, 2014 blog post:
Michael has crossed a line: A very dangerous line.
Calling for the abdication of Cardinal Dolan and many other non specified bishops, coupled with the stern admonition that the time has come for an, “authentic Catholic uprising,” has the potential to incite passions in those who might not be as stable as one would hope. Consider this line from his commentary:
“Do not think the punishment visited on you will not be of the most severe sort when you die, perhaps even before you die, if you do not change.”
Michael needs to walk this one back: Way, WAY back. At this point Cardinal Dolan would be right to wonder at the intention behind that statement. It sounds like a veiled threat.
Voris made a veiled threat to another New York priest, Fr. Jonathan Morris, when, in a September 2015 Vortex episode, Voris said of Father Morris, "Won't someone rid us of this troublesome priest?"

I could go on ad infinitum with examples of Voris's attacks against anyone he perceives as being "soft" on homosexuals.  I will let these few examples suffice for the moment.  

Why does Michael Voris see a homosexual conspiracy under every rock in the Catholic Church? Why does he seem absolutely consumed by this issue?  Why is Voris always talking about the lack of "manly men" in the Church, and the feminization of the clergy?  Why is Voris continuously condemning Catholic priests and bishops with such statements as "evil, wicked, self-interested clergy who had no concern for their vows, promises or souls"?

Well, we got the answers to all these questions this past week from Michael Voris himself. Michael Voris "came out" and finally admitted that he is gay. Most Catholic bloggers praised Voris for his bravery. This included those who have had real problems with Voris in the past couple of years because Voris refuses to publicly condemn Pope Francis. They cheer Voris on for his incessant condemnation of bishops and priests, but for most of them, the fact that Voris will not condemn the Pope is enough to reject him.

But this week, they put all of that aside, and almost with one voice, supported Voris with great compassion.  Of course, for most of them, that went hand-in-hand with condemnation of the "Church of Nice" as seen in this comment from Louis Verrecchio's blog in a post aptly entitled, "Beating The Devil To The Punch":

richAPRIL 22, 2016 

Rich followed up his own comment with this:

richAPRIL 22, 2016 

These two comments sum up the feelings of many traditional Catholic bloggers who, like Voris, want to blame Church hierarchy for everything.  I find it ironic that they are able to show so much compassion for Michael Voris - which is a good thing - but are unable to show that same compassion to others who don't agree with their point of view.  

Why has Voris finally decided to reveal the truth about himself?  Well, once again, he puts the blame on the Catholic hierarchy and claims he is the victim of the diabolical New York Archdiocese. From Voris:
We have on very good authority from various sources that the New York archdiocese is collecting and preparing to quietly filter out details of my past life with the aim of publicly discrediting me, this apostolate and the work here.
The Archdiocese has flatly denied this charge by Voris:
A spokesman for the Archdiocese of New York told the Catholic Herald: “It is absolutely, 100 per cent untrue that the archdiocese was collecting and preparing to release anything concerning him personally or his website.”
Who are we to believe?  Well, of course all of those following Voris, having listened to him demonize Catholic hierarchy and the New York Archdiocese in particular for years, will believe Voris.   Having caught Voris in many lies over the years, I believe the New York Archdiocese.

So why would Voris try to blame everything on Church hierarchy once again?  Why not just come clean and admit his past?   There are very few among us who have a past of which we are not ashamed.  No one would blame or judge Michael Voris for his past sins.

But there is one person who will not forgive Michael Voris. That judgmental, condemning person is - Michael Voris.

I have long suspected that Michael Voris was gay. I have had comments on my blog from people who said they knew this for a fact. I have deleted these comments because they could not be substantiated. But the reason I have privately believed that Michael Voris is gay is because of the explosive rage and hatred that comes from him against homosexuals and anyone whom he believes supports them.

It is quite apparent that Voris has never come to acceptance of his homosexuality. There is no doubt that he struggles daily with shame and self loathing. He deals with it by projecting this loathing against Catholic hierarchy, whom he describes, as stated above, as "evil, wicked, self-interested clergy who had no concern for their vows, promises or souls."

Voris says that "I did not reveal the specific nature or details of the sins, because when I returned home to the Church, I did not think that a full public confession of details was necessary in order to start proclaiming the great mercy of God."  None of us need or want to know the "details" of his sinful past, but since he has decided to make the fight against homosexuality a central part of his work, it is only right that he disclose his homosexual past.  This actually may have given his work more credence, not less.

But it also leaves us scratching our heads as to why Voris does not have more compassion with those who struggle with this sin.  Anyone who has ever known a gay person knows that no one chooses this lifestyle, but that there is something driving them from within.  That is why many believe that people are born this way, although there is no scientific evidence for this claim.  

This is also the reason why many of us, including many in the Catholic hierarchy, do not condemn homosexuals as evil, wicked people. They are sinners just like us. But homosexuality - like most sexual sins - can only be overcome by the grace and mercy of Jesus Christ. Homosexuals want to live normal happy lives like all the rest of us. So they try things like same sex marriage - if they can be married and committed to one person, then they will be okay. If they can adopt kids, then they will be okay. But because their lifestyle goes against God's commands, none of these things work. Do we condemn them for that, or do we show compassion and love?

Cardinal Dolan, who is considered the top Catholic United States cleric, has always shown compassion and respect for homosexuals.  This is NOT equivalent to condoning homosexuality.  He is on the Board of Courage, a Catholic ministry to help homosexuals live chaste lives.  He has spoken out forcefully against same sex marriage:

From a July 2011 article in the National Catholic Register:
After marriage was redefined to include same-sex couples in New York, Archbishop Timothy Dolan is warning that this step could lead to a further redefinition that accepts multiple partners and infidelity.

The New York City archbishop said that in recent decades the Church has been a prophetic voice warning that no-fault divorce, contraception, cohabitation and promiscuity would lead to “a cheapening of the marriage bond and harm our kids.”

“And now we ring the steeple bell again at this latest dilution of the authentic understanding of marriage, worried that the next step will be another redefinition to justify multiple partners and infidelity,” he said.
As the article further states:
Archbishop Dolan insisted that, ultimately, regardless of same-sex “marriage” legislation and subsequent intolerance for religious beliefs, the Church always has and will stand “up for marriage: one man and one woman, united in lifelong and faithful love.”
Why doesn't Michael Voris ever tell us about these kind of statements from Cardinal Dolan?  Instead, Voris interprets every statement of compassion as being equivalent to condoning homosexuality.

Cardinal Dolan, in this same article, clearly explains how it is possible to love homosexuals while rejecting the homosexual lifestyle:
The New York archbishop underscored that, from the outset, the goal of Catholics in the fight “was pro-marriage, never anti-gay.”

“As I replied recently to a reporter who asked if I had any message to the gay community, ‘Yes: I love you. Each morning I pray with and for you and your true happiness and well-being. I am honored that so many of you are at home within our Catholic family, where, like the rest of us, we try, with the help of God’s grace and mercy, to conform our lives to Jesus and his message.’”
Whenever Voris sees statements like the one above, he seethes with anger. He does not see compassion and love in this statement. He sees only "evil, wicked, self-interested clergy who had no concern for their vows, promises or souls."

Why? The answer is really quite apparent. His self loathing and shame will not allow him to see anything else. He projects all of this self hatred onto the clergy of the Catholic Church. They are the reason he fell into such a sinful lifestyle. They are the reason he caused his family so much heartache. They are the reason why he struggles with sin every day of his life. The "evil wicked clergy" caused him to become a great sinner, and they must go to hell for it! As Voris publicly told Cardinal Dolan, he is ready to take charge and personally purge the Catholic hierarchy.

In his "coming out" video, Voris mentioned great saints who left behind very sinful lives, "countless men and women with horrible, horrible lives who became saints: Paul, Augustine, Francis, Ignatius, Margaret of Cortona, the patron saint of reformed prostitutes." The big difference between these saints and Michael Voris is that they never tried to hide who they were. They came to God, confessed their sins without laying the blame on anyone else, and then left those sins behind. Unless and until Michael Voris stops blaming the Catholic Church for his sins, he will never be free from those sins.

Voris has tried very hard to hide his past from the public. Since I don't believe that the New York Archdiocese is the reason Michael Voris finally decided to review his true self, I can only wonder what the real reason is. I hope I am wrong, but be prepared for other revelations to come.

Thanks to Terry Nelson of Abbey Roads, I watched a very beautiful video just last week produced by Courage ministry entitled, "The Desire of the Everlasting Hills." You can watch the entire video HERE. I would highly recommend it. This video tells the story of three gay Catholics - two men and one woman - who fell away from the Church as young adults, lived very sinful lifestyles, and then returned to the Church and now live chaste lives as devout Catholics. There is no recrimination from any of them against the Catholic church, no blaming anyone else for their sins. They are not out to destroy all of the "evil wicked clergy" of the Catholic Church. There is only a deep love for God and His Church, just as there was for all of the saints listed by Michael Voris in his "coming out" video.



I truly do hope and pray that now that Michael Voris is no longer trying to hide who he is, that he will now be able to let go of all of the rage and hatred that he carries within.  I hope that he will stop blaming the entire world for his sins, and that he will finally be able to let go of the past.  As the Apostle Paul wrote in Philippians 3:13-14:


45 comments:

  1. Head snap! You got my attention! Thanks Mary for this perspective - it's a great reality check - I mean that. I get the 'self-hate' thing. Say a prayer for me too my friend. One of my commenters, Mack will be helped by reading this - I think he's a bit incredulous over the reactions Voris has been getting.

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  2. Good points you make. I believe you hit the nail on the head. The anger Voris expresses toward homosexuals and his claim that homosexuality is endemic among clergy and is ruling the seminaries and Church point to a skewed view that is now better understood given his public confession.

    It's encouraging that even those who have opposed him are offering messages of good will toward him. I see many calling him courageous but, to me, that's a bit over the top. Soldiers are courageous. Persecuted Christians in the middle east are courageous. Voris didn't so much show courage as he simply did something that was difficult and humiliating because he found himself backed into a corner. I agree that there will likely be revelations to come regarding the impetus for his confession.

    I don't buy the story blaming the Archdiocese of NY. I suspect Voris isn't nearly as important as he thinks he is and I doubt that Cdl Dolan would stoop to or condone such tactics. It wouldn't surprise me if one or more of Voris's past partners was blackmailing him. Maybe they happen to live in NY or maybe they told Voris they would go to the Archdiocese with their stories. The truth may out eventually. I'm saddened to see Voris's fan club tarring and feathering Cdl Dolan when Voris offers no substantiation. His proof is just another instance of citing anonymous sources...a tactic he uses too frequently.

    I do hope that he will take time to reflect, gain insight and forgive himself for his sins. When he's able to forgive himself, he may then be able to feel and show compassion for those who suffer from the same temptations. That he would have so little compassion for those whose plight he surely understands speaks to an open wound on the soul. I pray that he has a good spiritual director...perhaps a priest educated in psychology. I question whether being so much in the public eye and being the center of the cult of personality that has developed around him is conducive to spiritual healing. Maybe he will be able to retreat for a time. In any event, if he continues his work at CM, I hope he will accept the graces God offers. He's been given an opportunity to grow in humility...something that we all need as we strive to be saints.

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    1. If you read the transcript of the Voris video, you will note that nowhere does he actually say he is a homosexual. He says he had sex with many men and women in his 20's and lived with homosexual men in his 30's. Even in his confession, he is still in denial about who he is. He cannot face the truth about himself. That is why he lashes out as he does, condemning everyone but himself. If he has a spiritual director, his SD has failed him miserably. And all of those who are cheering him on at this point in his life are harming, not helping him. He needs to actually say the words, "I am a homosexual.” That is the only way he will find peace. At this point he is still a very troubled and dangerous human being.

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    2. A friend of mine posted this Vortex that Voris did in 2010 and then reposted in 2013. Voris seems to have an odd understanding of the nature of God's perfect love. He claims that God has a more intense love for homosexuals...especially those who carry their cross faithfully. As my friend said, in light of his recent confession, it appears that Voris suffers from delusions of grandeur with his elevation of homosexuals to victim soul status who are specially chosen by God to save souls. God's love is perfect. He can't love one soul more than another.

      I find this quite bazaar and a red flag that Voris has no business holding himself out in public as a teaching authority for the Catholic faith. He seems wholly lacking in insight and his dance around the facts...as you said, refusing to identify as homosexual....indicate that he's in a degree of denial.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0sILSapUUc#t=28

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    3. I also long suspected that Voris was himself homosexual. His glaring homophobia is the biggest scream that tells on him. However, it did not really matter if he was or not, no more than it really matters now. Living a life in Christ and putting away sin is truly the only thing that matters.
      And we are called to judge matters of sin, in ourselves and in each other. The sin of attempting to stir up division in the Church and promoting belligerence toward Clergy in good standing with the Holy See and setting up his self proclaimed apostolate as a Catholic teaching authority are things that we as faithful Catholics have a duty to judge and call out as error.
      I wish that could admire Michael for coming out, but instead of being satisfied with the cape of courage, he decided to try to fabricate a mantle of martyrdom and victimhood. I do not buy it for a second that anybody in the NY Archdiocese could actually care one way or the other about him sinful past.

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  3. There are a number of emotive guessing, to Mr Voris perceived anger and motives, which is not Christian at at all.
    Not knowing much about about the issue as a South African it is bothersome when issues that affect Catholics around the world are ignored by the country you Americans reside in.

    Let me explain, your country arms Muslim groups, in Afghanistan and the Middle East. The are friends with oppressive governments and are arms suppliers: Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan.

    Catholics are oppressed, murdered , kidnapped, have heavier tax burdens, their children are kidnapped and sold into sex slavery, Churches blown up, in some places we are not allowed to worship at all. Well this happens in Africa. At the moment there are hundreds of Catholic girls still missing after 2 years in Nigeria.
    Your country calls those it arms as moderate, well those moderates turn U S weapons on Christians.

    Do you not think by your silence and non interest to these gross human rights abuse or your own country participation in arming and maintaining these evil friendships, you are been quite petty in the understanding of love for you brother and that includes Mr Voris.

    When Jesus was asked who is your brother, He did not look beyond His mother, disciples when He answered the question.

    You understanding of rights is unbalanced when you cannot see the necessity to stand up and resit all that evil to willingly accept the evil in in a non verbal or inactive way yet loudly proclaiming your compassion to those who perpetrate the evil, while ignoring your brother and sister, the victims.

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    1. I am in total agreement with you about the evil practices of the United States. It is of great concern to me that everywhere the US goes, Christians are persecuted and killed.

      However, we can be concerned about more than one thing. I am not interested in judging the personal spiritual condition of Michael Voris. That is between him, his spiritual director and his Creator. However, Voris is a public figure and has made it his goal in life to destroy the hierarchy of the Catholic Church for what he perceives as evil motives and actions. He is affecting many tens and maybe hundreds of thousands of people with his warped, judgmental and condemnatory ideas and causing great confusion and division in the Church. That is why this is an important issue. Maybe you don't think putting many thousands of souls in spiritual peril is an important issue that must be addressed, but I do think it is important, and that is why I wrote this post.

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    2. Catholics are well schooled in their faith, the catechism of the catholic Church is available to all Catholics.

      It is for the Church to teach, to proclaim the gospel. It is God our Father who appointed Jesus Christ to judge the living and the dead, all we have to do is have faith, not just any kind faith, but what we have faith in is absolutely true, the risen Christ.

      Catholics should be well aware of this, Christ Jesus is the King of kings that every knee should.
      bow.

      Mr Voris is my brother so are you. Why should I worry. If you both receive the Eucharist and believe in the real presence of Christ. Our Lord will lead you both to salvation on different roads.

      I do not know what Mr Voris knows, nor can I judge his honesty, neither do you know.

      The Church is guided by the Holy Spirit and at times the Holy Spirit has used the body of the Church to keep it on track. However there is an hierarchy of importance in social issues that affect the world such as, no greater love has one, that he lay his life for His brother.

      We are responsible for one another in the world, the saving action is Jesus.

      The issue of not coming to the aid of a brother who is in need by a fellow brother is perplexing when the attention of the squabble is emotive and the opinions expressed is not evidence driven.

      Contrary to this, the persecution of millions Christians is evidenced based which has been a constant abuse of human rights for centuries with the silence of secular governments.

      The fight you have chosen is weak the one you need to fight is more of a challenge.

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    3. What, specifically, do you want us to do Malcolm? As CIB stated, we can have concern for more than one thing. But it is natural to have greater concern for issues on one's home turf.

      Catholics in the USA are not well schooled in their faith. Lack of catechesis is a serious problem here. The division Mr Voris has caused among Catholics and his attacks on Cdl Dolan are of importance to us here....though I understand why that may not resonate highly with you.

      It sounds condescending for you to criticize a blog entry on one topic by saying "the fight you have chosen is a weak one". There are many battles going on worldwide...not just in the Middle East and Africa.


      Again, I ask, what specifically do you want us to do regarding the actions of our government? We have no more power to alter the foreign policy actions of our government than you have to affect yours. I pray daily for Christians suffering persecution. Please tell me what else you think I should do.

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    4. Catholicism is a universal concept not a local issue,no one is suggesting that you should not attend to the needs of those closest to you. Start in Detroit if you have a need and pressurize your government to assist your brothers and sisters there instead of supporting and arming people, who murder the innocent.

      However we all need to develop a world vision that incorporates the human dignity and rights of all people from conception to death.

      Mr Voris has his right to his dignity, his right to voice his concerns, his right to be listen to, his right to have an adequate response from those he addresses.

      St Paul did this with St Peter who was gracious enough to concede to his point.

      St John would disappear from those he considered a heretic. Where as some cardinals march with them under a secular banner.

      The Catholic bishops of England all capitulated under threats from Henry VIII, save one.

      Martin Luther a Catholic religious priest caused a fission that is still cause for concern.

      What matters here is the Teaching of the Church that Jesus authorized His apostles to proclaim. Well they did just that and were willing to die as many Middle East Christians have done in our present time.

      Your spat with Mr Voris is petty in the greater scheme of things. We cannot treat our fellow brother in such a manner





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    5. And yet, you seem to feel that it is OK for you to speak condescendingly here. Mr Voris takes every opportunity to trash the hierarchy of the Church. He promotes division of Catholics. He harms rather than helps the Church.

      Though I live in the USA, I live 2,000 miles from Detroit so that isn't my local government. You don't seem to have a clear understanding of the size of the USA. It's ludicrous to think that the individual citizen can have any impact at all on arms sales, often done clandestinely, by high level national government officials.

      That you would get your knickers in a twist over a blog post leads me to believe that you're a fan of Voris.

      BTW, what are you doing personally to stop the persecution of Christians in the Middle East and Africa?

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    6. Thank you for your reply, Detroit, has one of the worst depopulation areas in the USA, not to mention unemployment, murder rate, or literacy for school going children. The municipality declared bankruptcy at one stage. The city is in the center of surrounding suburbs as in a wagon wheel plan. 2km in any direction you will find decaying buildings.

      As it happens I submit to to Jesus and to the Catholic Church, no one else.

      I am out of here.

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  4. CIB>>>>Michael Voris devotes a major part of his self-proclaimed apostolate to trying to destroy anyone in the Catholic Church who shows any compassion or empathy for homosexuals. <<<

    Dear lady!

    You are doing 'it' again. i.e. setting yourself up as a judger of inward intent.

    how can you say Voris is "trying to destroy anyone in the Catholic Church who shows any compassion or empathy for homosexuals."??

    What about the priest who gave him absolution for homosexual acts? Has Voris gone after him as well? If not, well, then your opening thesis goes up in smoke. IMO it is best to avoid using terms like 'any','all', 'always', 'never', etc.when judging someone's intent-or else risk being written off for jumping conclusions or exaggerating.

    I really think you could have amended your thesis to: "Michael Voris devotes a major part of his self-proclaimed apostolate to trying to destroy anyone in the Catholic Church who creates scandal by appearing to endorse brazen homosexual advocacy and homosexual acts as if they were on a par with the holy marital embrace between a wife and her husband."

    Then your argument would flow more harmoniously.

    If I remember correctly, Voris' beef with His Eminence was over HE's decision to allow groups advocating in-your-face-sodomy to march in the St. Patrick's day parade. Voris judged that to be scandalous. It was. No?

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    1. You need to get your facts straight. Cardinal Dolan never "allowed" gay groups to march in the parade. The Catholic Church has no authority over who does and does not march in the parade. The parade has always been organized by a secular committee.

      And no, Cardinal Dolan did not do anything scandalous when he marched in the parade as Grand Marshal. See my post:

      http://catholicinbrooklyn.blogspot.com/2014/09/cardinal-dolan-catcher-in-rye-and.html

      As far as your statements regarding Vrois, please re-read the above post. You seem to have missed all my main points.

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  5. Catholic in Brooklyn, do you think conversion therapy can work?

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    1. I don't know anything about conversion therapy, so I really can't comment. But most homosexuals who leave that lifestyle through the grace of God still identify as being gay. So conversion therapy would not seem to be the way the Holy Spirit works.

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    2. Christopher,

      You ask whether or not conversion therapy can work. First, we need to remember that there is a difference between orientation and action; I take this as a given and something upon which we agree. Second, we need to ascertain whether orientation is a choice. Choice implies deliberation and most people who experience same-sex attraction do so from an early age, so the view that orientation is a choice really does not hold water. Besides. who chooses to be laughed at by peers, alienated by family, lose a job, refused a lease, (the last 2 being legal in many US states) or (in some countries) imprisoned, beaten or even put to death?

      It is interesting that the original version of the present catechism (of which I have a copy) stated that gays and lesbians “...do not choose their homosexual condition; for most of them it is a trial” (CCC 2358). This sentence was removed in subsequent printings, no doubt due to the lack of supporting scientific evidence 20 years ago. Regardless, the Church teaches that “They must be accepted with respect, compassion and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided.” (CCC 2358) and that Christians who are gay or lesbian are called “...to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.” (CCC 2358)

      As for conversion therapy, I would agree with CiB that it is possible to change behaviour, but not orientation. So, conversion therapy does not work and as CiB wrote it “would not seem to be the way of the Holy Spirit”.

      Regarding your question as to whether or not there is such a thing as homophobia (ie fear of gays or being gay), I offer 2 stories. For much of the 1980s Jimmy Swaggart was the most watched televangelist in the US. He was rather merciless in his message to those he considered to be sinners. When one of his fellow ministers in the Assembly of God was found to have been visiting prostitutes, Swaggart referred to him as being a cancer on the Body of Christ, and needed to be cut off and burned. Within 6 months, Swaggart was himself exposed for visiting prostitutes, and actually televised a programme in which he begged forgiveness of his wife – who sat, clearly uncomfortable, in a nearby seat. Then we have our own, Fr John Corapi who preached a similarly unmerciful message before he was discovered to be sexually involved with women, as well as possessing massive sums of money and property (though a member of a religious order). Neither Swaggart, nor Corapi, truly admitted to being as guilty as those they had condemned.

      My point is that when someone spends a great deal of time pointing out the sins of others, it may be advisable to check that person's own life. Voris's relentless finger pointing at others, including those with same-sex attraction, is a classic example of self-loathing and of fear of self-acceptance; thus, it may accurately be described as homophobia. As CiB has mentioned, Voris continues to avoid calling himself 'gay', which is much along the approach of Swaggart and Corapi's denial of their own predilections.

      Sometimes, I find Catholic bloggers to be so insistent on justice, often to the expense of mercy. I speak only for myself in saying that when I meet God, I will be hoping for mercy rather than justice.

      CiB – apologies for (a) answering a question directed to you (b) the length of this post.

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    3. Excellent answer, filled with compassion and understanding. Thank you so much.

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  6. Catholic in Brooklyn, is it safe to say that Michael Voris is a homophobe? In an episode of "The Vortex" known as "Homophobic War Cry," Voris said, "There's no such thing as homophobia."

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    1. The point of my post is that Michael Voris has never come to an acceptance r of who and what he is, and as a result, he is blaming the hierarchy of the Cstholic Church for his misery and suffering. He is not afraid of homosexuals, he is afraid of himself.

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  8. Catholic in Brooklyn, is there REALLY such a thing as homophobia? In any case, I would REALLY like a faithful, orthodox Catholic to SERIOUSLY critique Mr. Voris' book "Militant: Resurrecting Authentic Catholicism." I do admit to checking out "The Vortex" regularly, but I also regularly check out the EWTN program "The World Over." Mr. Voris has been critical of EWTN's recent product.

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    1. I would not waste as much as two minutes of my life reading a book by Michael Voris.

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  9. Catholic in Brooklyn, do you know if Michael Voris' homosexual acts have been brought up on any secular talk shows?

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    1. I know gay web sites have discussed his "coming out", but outside of Catholic circles, Voris isn't really very well known, thankfully.

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  10. Um, is it safe to say that Michael Voris is bisexual? After all, he had "frequent sexual liaisons with both adult men and adult women."

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  11. If you're at all interested in knowing . . . the Catholic Dogmas . . . that we *must believe* to get to Heaven . . .

    We list it on our website > > > www.Gods-Catholic-Dogma.com

    The Dogmas have in fact ... been hidden from you.

    The Catholic God knows . . . what we think and believe . . .

    Catholic writing of Romans 1:21 >
    "They ... became vain in their thoughts, and their foolish heart was darkened."

    Catholic Faith (pre-fulfillment) writing of Job 21:27 >
    "Surely I know your thoughts, and your unjust judgments against Me."

    The fact that "islam" is not a religion is on Section 113.1 of the site. Mohammed in the "koran" wrote exactly the opposite of the Old Testament Prophets.

    Proverbs 30:4 > "Who hath ascended up into Heaven ... what is the name of His Son."
    koran - maryam 19:35 > "It is not befitting ... Allah that He should beget a son."

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    1. So, your 'Catholic' website states that since 8th Dec 1965 has had no priest or bishops because they were all excommunicated for heresy. Then your site tells people "...to avoid buildings with Catholic signs because they have nothing to do with Christianity" and that people who participate will be automatically excommunicated.

      Good grief. Even Bishop Williamson wouldn't make such ridiculous statements. And, amidst your waffling scripture quotes, I notice that one is missing: "You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it". According to your website, Pope Francis cannot be the real pope. This means you are not in communion with him, do not believe in the promise of Christ and are most definitely NOT a Catholic.

      I hope that CiB deletes your post as it links to heresy of the worst kind - and most importantly - is thus a threat to the salvation of those who read its garbage.

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    2. Alban - you are dismally "unaware" of the Catholic Dogma on automatic excommunication for heresy.

      We list this Dogma at > www.Gods-Catholic-Dogma.com/section_13.2.html.

      The documents of Satan's "vatican-2 council" ... promote the heresy of "religious freedom" TWENTY-EIGHT times ... when the (apparent) bishops at the "council" approved the 16 documents ... they immediately ceased being Catholic bishops.

      Williamson is a heretic and headed for Hell. Heretic Lefebvre never Ordained heretic Williamson, since Lefebvre was most certainly an excommunicated heretic as of 8 December 1965 ... Lefebvre approved the mountain of heresy in the "council" documents ... he's in Hell forever.

      This subject of automatic excommunication is one of the many reasons you're currently losing your soul outside of the Catholic Church.

      Abjuration of heresy for you to become Christian (by entering the Catholic Church) is on Section 19.1 of the above site.

      The Abjuration will also point out how the loss of your soul is being aggressively engineered.

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    3. Marcel Lefebvre did not sign the following documents of Vatican II,all of which dealt with religious freedom: the Decree on Ecumenism, the Declaration on Religious Liberty, the Declaration on the Relation of the Church to non-Christian Religions. Therefore, by your own logic, he was not excommunicated and the ordination of Bishop Williamson is valid. Your ignorance of historical events is quite worrying.

      Second, Christ Himself stated "You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it." (Matthew 16:17-19). Catholicism has always regarded Peter as the first pope, and thus Christ promises that the Church, which is led by the successors of Peter cannot (repeat: cannot) fall into heresy. To say otherwise, as your organisation does, is to contradict Christ Himself.

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    4. You're against the truth ... again.

      Here's the devil heresy "you can't find" ...

      vatican-2 heretic cult in ... "dignitatis humanae", paragraph 12, 7 December 1965 >
      "The Church is following the way of Christ and the apostles when she recognizes and gives support to the principle of religious freedom as befitting the dignity of man and as being in accord with divine revelation."

      vatican-2 heretic cult in ... "dignitatis humanae", paragraph 15, 7 December 1965 >
      "May the God and Father of all grant that the human family, through careful observance of the principle of religious freedom ..."

      vatican-2 heretic cult in ... "dignitatis humanae", paragraph 2, 7 December 1965 >
      "The council further declares that the right to religious freedom has its foundation in the very dignity of the human person as this dignity is known through the revealed word of God."

      vatican-2 heretic cult in ... "dignitatis humanae", paragraph 2, 7 December 1965 >
      "Religious freedom, in turn, which men demand as necessary to fulfill their duty to worship God."

      - - - - -

      Against this (selected) infallible Dogma ...

      Council of Florence, Session 8, Pope Eugene IV, 22 Nov 1439 -- Ex-Cathedra Dogma >
      "Whoever wills to be saved, before all things it is necessary that he holds the Catholic faith. Unless a person keeps this faith whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish eternally."

      Fourth Lateran Council, Pope Innocent III, 1215 A.D. -- Ex-Cathedra Dogma >
      "There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside of which no one at all is saved."

      Vatican Council of 1870, Session 3, Chapter 3 On Faith, Paragraphs 8-9, Pope Pius IX -- Ex-Cathedra Dogma >
      "Wherefore, by Divine and Catholic Faith all those things are to be believed ... which are proposed by the Church as matters to be believed as Divinely revealed (...) Since, then, without Faith it is impossible to please God and reach the fellowship of His sons and daughters, it follows that no one can ever achieve justification without it, neither can anyone attain eternal life unless he or she perseveres in it to the end."

      More > Section 12.1.3 of www.Gods-Catholic-Dogma.com

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    5. Alban - You're wrong again ... this time regarding the "Gates of Hell" scripture of the Catholic writing of Matthew 16:18.

      Catholic worldwide Dogmatic Councils ... have defined FOUR times ... that the "Gates of Hell" scripture ... IS NOT about the Papacy possibly falling vacant by heresy.

      I list this Dogma on Section 13.3 of my site > www.Gods-Catholic-Dogma.com

      Such as ...

      Second Council of Constantinople, Pope Vigilius, 553 A.D. -- Ex-Cathedra Dogma >
      "We bear in mind what was promised about the Holy Church and Him who said the gates of Hell will not prevail against it, by these we understand the death-dealing tongues of heretics."

      The "Gates of Hell" scripture ... is about heresy not causing the Catholic Dogma to disappear from the world.

      If the Bishop of Rome (the Pope, currently vacant) ... falls into heresy ... does it mean the "Gates of Hell" have prevailed against the Church ?

      NO, NO and NO ... because OTHER people are Baptized in water and believe the Catholic Dogma, so that they are the Catholic Church.

      If you want to be Christian someday ... please see the Abjuration of heresy on Section 19.1 of the site.

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  12. Mr Voris stated that he was studying for the RC Priesthood at St. Joseph's Seminary in the Dunwoodie Section of Yonkers, a part of The RC Archdiocese of New York.
    Perhaps, someone from that time, might have threatened to go public with his proclivities.

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    1. Something definitely scared him. He is still attacking, but in a much more subdued way.

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  13. When you get a chance, Catholic in Brooklyn, check out the following link:

    http://onthemattersofpapistry.blogspot.com/2015/12/from-vorisite-to-barronite-why-i-left.html

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  14. Catholic in Brooklyn, why do YOU think Michael Voris has made such a big deal about masculinity?

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    1. This gets in psychoanalyzing, but now that Voris himself has confirmed that he is gay, it is pretty obvious that he is lashing out at the Church and accusing the hierarchy of being "feminized" because of his insecurities concerning his own masculinity. Voris is a very troubled man who sees the world based on his own limitations and neuroses. His ideas and views are warped and distorted. I can only say again, please stop listening to him.

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    2. Well, Catholic in Brooklyn, "the Vortex" has a certain "train wreck" quality to it! :D

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  15. Catholic in Brooklyn, what do you think would happen if Michael Voris were to appear on "Dr. Phil"?

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    1. That's easy. Dr. Phil would tell Voris that he has deep emotional problems in coming to acceptance of his homosexuality which results in his lashing out against authority, and Voris would give Dr. Phil the same answer he gives everyone he doesn't like and disagrees with. He would accuse Dr. Phil of being an evil man out to destroy the Church.

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    2. Um, would Voris claim that Dr. Phil is SISSIFIED? Catholic in Brooklyn, you know that Voris likes to frame things in terms of masculinity.

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    3. And Dr. Phil would say that is because Voris is so insecure in his own masculinity.

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  16. It's my understanding that Michael Voris didn't really start bashing Catholic prelates on "The Vortex" until after Obama visited Notre Dame in 2009. What do you have to say about that, Catholic in Brooklyn?

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  17. Catholic in Brooklyn, check out the following link:

    http://aaronharburg.com/michael-voris-are-you-gay/

    ReplyDelete

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