Thursday, July 10, 2014

Michael Voris Discredits Himself


Michael Voris recently did a Vortex entitled, "How Is This Happening" in which he issued a challenge:
This is a direct shout out to the Church of Nice Catholic Establishment and its media lapdogs – both official on traditional media outlets AND their wannabe allies in the internet world –

Listen to sound bites from this interview we conducted with a young homosexual who goes to daily Mass in the archdiocese of New York and frequently attends Mass at St. Francis of Assisi parish on 31st in midtown.

At the end of the clips – be prepared to answer how this young man, this soul that God loves infinitely, is capable of giving responses like he gives.
So I am taking Voris up on his challenge, and I will use his own video to show just how deceptive and manipulative he is.

After Voris issues the above challenge, he then goes to a clip of his interview with Jason, a young, gay Catholic man, in front of St. Francis of Assisi Church in NYC.

In the first part of this clip, Jason gives his own explanation of the meaning of I Corinthian 13. Jason gives us the worn out explanation that God created him as a gay man and God doesn't make mistakes.

He then makes a very interesting statement:
. . .so that is how I understand it so I mean honestly the Church is wrong in that the Church has gotten things wrong before.
Voris follows up Jason's statement with this:
Now Church of Nice, US Hierarchy, support staff, Catholic Establishment Media – explain this.

This is your doing. You have spent so much time avoiding telling the truth of the entire catastrophe of Catholic catechesis in this nation for the past 50 years that you have ignored young men like this.

You have sacrificed his spiritual well being for the sake of your own comfort. From bishops to priests to the Catholic Establishment Media, so much time has been spent been protecting the status quo – meaning their own rear ends and reputations, that they have allowed young souls like this to drift into a world of delusion.

Why? How is it possible that a man who goes to Mass everyday can have such an incorrect understanding of Catholic truth? We’re waiting for an answer.
Explain this? Michael Voris, didn't you hear what Jason said? Jason made it very clear that he knows exactly what the church teaches, and he is willingly and voluntarily rejecting this teaching.

Look at his words:
"The Church is wrong in that the Church has gotten things wrong before."
This means that, contrary to Voris's repeated statements that no one is teaching Catholics the truth, Jason has been taught the truth of the Church and he has chosen to reject it.  This being the case, how can "bishops to priests to the Catholic Establishment Media" be responsible for a man who knows church teaching and chooses, on his own, to reject it?

In fact, Voris confirms this fact with his own words:
He is no dummy. He shared with us that he went to Notre Dame and actually submitted an extensive paper SUPPORTING the Church’s teaching .. you heard right, he once understood and agreed with the Church’s teaching on homosexuality
It seems that Jason was taught the dogma of the Church so well that, as Voris reports, Jason wrote "an extensive paper SUPPORTING the Church's teaching."  And there is no other place Jason could have learned this other than IN the Catholic Church. But Voris just glides right over this fact and says:
But somewhere, some how over the intervening years, he threw in the towel, he listened to the prevailing gay-friendly propaganda coming from pulpits and priests and bishops affirming doubts he may have had .. and now he is transformed into a Church teaching denying Daily Communicant.

Jason seems to be a very young man, most likely still in his 20's. So he learned Catholic dogma, which he once wholeheartedly embraced, during the 90's into the first part of the 21st Century. This was most definitely during what Voris would call the reign of the "Church of Nice."

Yet Voris blames the Catholic Church, who had taught Jason very well, for the fact that Jason now rejects this truth? Voris doesn't think for a moment that the influence of our corrupt society, a society that endorses and promotes homosexuality, had any part in the fact that Jason now rejects Church teaching? Really? And just what would Voris have the Church do to Jason for rejecting her teachings? Go back to the methods of the Inquisition and put him on the rack?

Jason has fully admitted that his beliefs are in direct contradiction to church teaching. He is under no delusion about what the Church teaches. How much plainer can that be that it is not the fault of the Church that he has come to reject her teachings?

Voris then goes on a familiar rant about how corrupt the "Church of Nice" is:
How pathetic is it that all the Church of Nice and church leaders can muster up for a young man like this and all the rest who have to carry the cross of same-sex attraction is to quietly condone their acts.
They provide a false safety net, the APPEARANCE or pretense of charity when all the while the real truth is they are just cowards and even worse – selfish cowards who care more about themselves than this young man.

That say much much more about the state of their souls an their own lack of faith than it does about the souls of same-sex attracted Catholics.

And again, you will never ever hear stories like this – reports like this on EWTN or other mainstream Catholic Media outlets.
Blah, blah blah.  The same old same old from Michael Voris.

I have one question for Michael Voris.  Did he, Michael Voris, do anything to try to bring the "real truth" to Jason which Voris says was not given to Jason by the "selfish cowards who care more about themselves than this young man"?

Voris tells us this:
It’s the very last exchange we had with him – he said, lets pray for each other. And so we shall.
No, it seems that Mike just let Jason go on his merry way without saying anything to him.  Why didn't Voris do what he blames "the Church of Nice" for not doing? Why didn't you educate this young man as to the truth of the Church? Could it possibly be because you knew he wouldn't accept it and that your words would be falling on deaf ears? Or were you more interested in just using Jason to attack the Church and not really interested in his spiritual well being at all? You say the "Church of Nice", the Church which actually taught him very well, doesn't care about Jason. Do you? Only you, Mike, can answer that question.

Voris wants us to "answer how this young man, this soul that God loves infinitely, is capable of giving responses like he gives." The answer is right in your video, Mike. But you are so driven in your efforts to tear down Church hierarchy that you can't even see how you discredit yourself.

Michael Voris was at the "Pre Pride Mass" at St. Francis of Assisi Church along with Jason.  I am assuming he listened to the sermon, which is the same sermon that Jason heard. As I have reported, the celebrant gave a sermon in which he urged young men like Jason to let go of his "preconception, hardheartedness, and prejudice."

Jason was warned in the sermon that day at St. Francis of Assisi Church, just minutes before the interview with Voris, that not to be in communion with the Church was to put his soul in peril.  I was there and I heard these words preached.  But Voris gave only a very edited version of this sermon (basically the last two sentences) to make it seem that the priest was condoning homosexuality.  Then Voris goes on a rant accusing the Church of not caring about men like Jason.

Who is really providing "a false safety net, the APPEARANCE or pretense of charity when all the while the real truth is they are just cowards and even worse – selfish cowards who care more about themselves than this young man"?  Is it the hierarchy of the Catholic Church, or is it Michael Voris?

Before you get all upset with me for using these words on Michael Voris, please understand that I am using his own words which he uses to described the ordained hierarchy of the Catholic Church. Maybe you could get just a little upset over that.

Yes, we most definitely need to pray for young men like Jason. We also need to pray for the soul of Michael Voris. He is surely in need of it.


19 comments:

  1. Yes, on the CMTV FB page, a friend of mine questioned Voris' interpretation of Jason's remarks as well as Voris' attempt to discredit EWTN. My friend was attacked and insulted by a Voris fan. The fan didn't address Voris' misinterpretation of Jason't remarks and she offered a lame justification that, because EWTN doesn't cover what Voris considers to be crisis issues in the Church, EWTN isn't a worthy Catholic apostolate. Voris' fan took out of context my friends words about Fr Barron made in a comment to someone else. She hurled the usual schoolyard bully taunt along the line of "I can't believe you're even CATHOLIC!" and also accused him of having no knowledge or understanding of the faith or scripture and of "slavishly" following Fr Barron. Her attack was juvenile and ludicrous considering that my friend is well catechized and has an admirable moral compass. I've noticed that Voris never seems to address any valid criticisms himself. Instead, he has a contingent of zealous watch-dogs prowling the page to growl and snap at anyone who doesn't rubber-stamp whatever Voris says. He should rein them in. His fan base is beginning to resemble the cult of Corapi. So many of his fans seem to be so rigid in their thinking that compassion and love can't enter their hearts. I don't think that CMTV FB page or the Vortex are apoltolates that bear good fruit. Voris will have to answer for his part in ginning up the fans to make disrespectful comments about Christ's appointed shepherds and other Catholics. His watch-dogs ban people who respectfully disagree with Voris while allowing comments like "Pope Francis is a heretic" to stand. I can't speak for his other videos. I don't want to part with even $10 to subscribe to his "premium channel" to find out. There is so much good, solid and free Catholic teaching on the internet and in libraries that I can't see giving money to someone whose public face is represented by the ranting guy in the Vortex videos who often grasps at straws and does some mental gymnastics in an effort to turn Church hierarchy into the enemy.

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    1. The Voris fan on FB was most likely Christine Niles. She is Voris's number 1 fan. She has now actually started to work for him. She usually shows up whenever anyone is critical of Voris. She was here a few times but has since given up on me.

      I have come to the conclusion that it doesn't matter how pious and supportive of the Church someone may seem. If they do not accept the Church hierarchy, they do not accept the Church or Our Lord. "Then he said to the disciples, "Anyone who accepts your message is also accepting me. And anyone who rejects you is rejecting me. And anyone who rejects me is rejecting God, who sent me." Luke 10:16

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    2. "His watch-dogs ban people who respectfully disagree with Voris while allowing comments like "Pope Francis is a heretic" to stand."

      That is a lie, and you need to take it back. CMTV would never support such comments. When they are made aware of them, they delete them immediately.

      While you're busy counseling charity, you might want to show some of it yourself towards Voris & his staff.

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    3. Christine, what are you doing here? I thought you had given up on me.

      Yes, I know that Voris has now made it a policy to not publicly criticize the pope. The fact that he specifically uses the words "publicly criticize" makes me wonder what he says privately.

      But why does Voris feel it is okay to make slanderous statements against other prelates of the Church, and why does he feel it is okay to lie about what happened at St. Francis of Assisi Church? Does he believe the Holy Father would condone these malicious actions?

      Interesting, Christine, that you don't attempt to defend Voris on the video in this post. Don't you ever get just a little concerned about the tactics of your leader?

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    4. Am I correct in assuming that Forward Boldly = Christine Niles? It would be more honest to post under your real identity. Since my statement is true, I won't retract. I didn't make it up. The comment, "Pope Francis is a heretic.", was under a thread on the CMTV FB page and remained standing even the next day. CMTV page administrators are charged with monitoring the page, not the public.

      Christine Niles, you were uncharitable to my friend in your remarks and now you complain that I lack charity (for pointing out your lack of charity). It boggles the mind. You're woefully lacking in insight. I do hope you'll drop your defensiveness long enough to do a good examination of conscience. 

      What do you think of the comments under the post of the "We're All the Same Inside" Vortex. Do you think comments such as these should be left unchecked?

      "What is that brown paste on my sodomy burger?"
      "does their gay burger come with aids?"
      "Sodium and Gonorrhoea in a wrapper. The modern Old Testament revision."

      Of course, Voris set the tone for these remarks by the tone of his video. (I know you don't like to acknowledge that tone and words are germane to Voris's videos but, like it or not, words and tone impact the message). There was no need for ranting. A private business chose to use a marketing ploy in an location where it would appeal to that population. Simply report it objectively to inform your audience so they can choose not to patronize the business. Voris went off on a sarcastic rant about how we're not all the same inside but used an apples and oranges comparison. Burger King was speaking of physical characteristics, not spiritual as Voris was arguing.

      The comments on the CMTV FB page point to a trend of condoning condescension and neglecting to evangelize. You, yourself chose to insult rather than kindly inform my friend, who you erroneously thought was "slavishly" following Fr Barron.  Do you not think that Voris and his staff will be held accountable for failing to lead the audience in accord with Christ's command to love our neighbor? First, you must lead by example. The sarcasm of Voris and the insulting nature of your comments lead the way.

      Christ loves us all, Christine. He wants all souls saved and he wants us to be one in our love for him. I don't see much on the CMTV FB page or Vortex videos that leads to that end.

      And to Catholic in Brooklyn's point, do you defend Voris in his false spin on the cause for Jason's rejection of Church teaching on homosexuality?

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    5. Gerard--Have you brought those particular comments to the attention of CMTV? The fellow in charge of social media is also busy doing many other jobs in the studio--he doesn't read every comment (and they get hundreds of comments). Instead of hastily assuming that they read them and let them stand, perhaps try giving them the benefit of the doubt. There's an idea!

      Mary--I've never made a single public remark about you--nor do I have any intention of doing so. But my name seems to crop up here multiple times--and each time it's accompanied by an insult on your part. Not very Catholic behavior, so forgive me if I can't take your exhortations to charity seriously. As to "giving up on you"--you blocked me a long time ago, remember?

      God bless.

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    6. Christine, since you work for Voris is it not sufficient that I've notified you of the comments? If someone comes to me with a problem related to the company I work for, I don't pass them along the line to someone else; I do what's needed to resolve the issue myself.

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    7. Christine, you either have an incredibly selective memory, or you are a liar. Here is a link to a post I did on Voris and the lies he told about Cardinal Dolan over a year ago. At that point I had comments on moderation. You went on and on in the comments section to the point where I just started deleting them. It was at the ridiculous stage.

      http://catholicinbrooklyn.blogspot.com/2013/04/michael-voris-declares-war-on-timothy.html

      You said that I blocked you. First of all, it is not possible to block individual commenters on Blogger. The most I can do is mark your comments as spam or delete them. And if I had been able to block you, that obviously means you have been here before. So give me a break. How can you possibly say you have never publicly commented on me?

      I know you have commented on other posts of mine, but I don't recall them at the moment. You finally did stop and that is why I was so surprised to see you show up again. I thought you had finally gone away for good, but I guess you have continued to lurk.

      You and I have also gotten into it on other blogs and Facebook.

      BTW: how did I insult you? What did I say that was not absolutely true? You never get into specifics. You just throw out accusations and then run away.

      You have no more credibility than your leader and now new boss. CMTV is a shameful organization.

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    8. Christine, you've sidestepped the issues concerning your own behavior. You're ultra sensitive to any criticism of Voris yet ignore the criticisms of your own harsh words. Apparently, you have no defense. You haven't addressed your complete lack of charity and attack on my friend in the CMTV FB thread.

      You also haven't attempted to defend the failed logic of Voris in the videos. You've been asked twice to comment on Voris's misrepresentation of the cause of Jason's rejection of the faith. You offer no defense because there is none. Voris is wrong. Yet you try to deflect from the real issue and subject of this blog post.

      You work for Voris/CMTV yet when I point out the nasty comments that are allowed to stand, you try to turn the tables and make it my responsibility to report it to your co-worker and have the audacity to be sarcastic while doing so. As an employee, you seem to lack any sense of customer relations and are lazy to boot. BTW, Christine, in addition to the comment about Pope Francis being a heretic, there's a comment on a more recent thread "cardinal dolan is a heretic". But you probably agree with that so wouldn't want to see that removed.

      Christine, how is the "apostolate" of CMTV in keeping with Christ's words that Catholic in Brooklyn posted previously? Voris and you reject Christ's ordained apostles, therefore, you reject Christ and God. "Anyone who accepts your message is also accepting me. And anyone who rejects you is rejecting me. And anyone who rejects me is rejecting God, who sent me." Luke 10:16

      Does not Christ himself, convict you of rejecting God?

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  2. Yes, you're right about the ID of the Voris fan. I only hope she defends Christ as vigorously as she defends Voris.

    Some of Fr Corapi's fans insisted he was innocent of the charges against him (still do) despite all evidence to the contrary. They attacked anyone who tried to reason with them and vilified Corapi's bishop. Voris came along and played to Corapi's fan base by chastising bloggers for their treatment of Corapi. It was an odd Vortex with Voris crying foul when he was guilty of the same behavior toward bishops and priests. I think a good number of Corapi's fan base transferred their affections to Voris after seeing that video. Makes you wonder, doesn't it? As with the Corapi's fans, Voris' fans seem more focused on Voris than Christ.

    Today's Vortex was about the Burger King rainbow whopper wrapper with the message "we're all the same inside" written on it. Voris ginned up the crowd to deliver the usual hateful comments and they didn't disappoint. One fellow, an atheist apparently, posted a rather ugly comment, calling Voris names and claiming we *are* all the same. He accused Christians of spewing hateful bigoted venom. I engaged him by explaining that homosexual coupling is against nature even without using scripture (which he rejects) for support if we look at the complementary nature of male/female anatomy and physiology. I pointed out to him, respectfully, that he seemed to spewing venom just as he accused Christians of doing. I did comment that, while I felt Voris' statement about not all being the same was truthful, I didn't agree with his manner in the video or the nasty tone of some of the comments on the page and I recognized that Burger King, as a private business, has the right to wrap their burgers in whatever they choose. We don't need to get up in arms about it. We can simply stop patronizing them (it's fast food; we shouldn't be eating that crap to begin with). The atheist comes back with a comment that was much more civil. He was willing to tone it down and enter into civil debate. I formed a reply to him but couldn't post it because the page administrator removed the atheist's original comment along with my reply and the atheist's second tamer comment. As with gay Jason in the video of this post, the admin for the Voris page aborted an opportunity to evangelize. Christ doesn't want any souls lost. When we have the opportunity to engage non-believers and douse their hatred with charity and respectful discourse we should jump at it. People like Voris and his followers insult, run off, block and delete those who are actually reaching out. Angry atheists are closer to conversion than atheists who harbor no animosity toward Christians. Angry atheists are afraid. They can't defend their beliefs so they lash out. Meeting them with charity despite their anger can go a long way toward softening their hearts to help the Holy Spirit save their souls. Voris' crowd simply reaffirms the atheists in their belief that Christians are hateful hypocritical bigots.

    The verse from Luke that you cite is one that those who are promoting dissent against Church hierarchy should heed. But they won't see themselves in it. They'll trot out the verse of Christ driving out the money-changers or the verse I saw someone post on the CMTV FB page today that Christ came not to bring peace but division. They take these verses out of context and use them to justify their uncharitable behavior.

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    1. it is interesting how Christine tries to hide her identity. So much for taking a courageous stance on what you supposedly believe.

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  3. A very good call out on how Michael Voris spins the facts to suit his on point of view. It truly insults the intelligence of how he seems to think the rest of us will just ignore certain facts that are boldly plain for all to see. It gives me great spiritual concern that his fan base would follow him so blindly.
    I have also have unfortunately unpleasant dealings with Christine Niles as well. A blinding fact that she and Michael Voris and others in their camp are missing is that their stance against our Bishops as it is, they themselves are in fact rejecting Church Teaching as must as that person Jason is.
    Canon 212 §1 says that we must show obedience to our Bishops as teachers and rulers of the Church.
    That is always a counter argument that Canon 212 §3 say that was can disagree with our Bishops, which is correct, but it also says that in doing so we must always show reverence to them.
    So, in my humble opinion neither Jason, Michael or Christine is communion with the Catholic Church, which is also a separate violation of Canon Law 209 §1.
    Of course all of us know that someone who does not follow Church Teaching should abstain from all the Sacraments, including Eucharist, until they can reconcile themselves back to the Church.

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    1. It is ironic that the extreme conservative and extreme liberal are really just two sides of the same coin. The common denominator seems to be pride. They are more righteous than the Church.

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  4. As expected, Christine Niles has no valid defense so she's had me blocked from the ChurchMilitantTV FB page. My comments were not uncharitable. Is Niles afraid that my comments may cause someone to give pause for thought?

    I agree, Catholic in Brooklyn, CMTV is a shameful organization. I also believe it's harmful to Catholics. CMTV has a surprising number of cult characteristics:

    1. A cult leader is always right. Has Voris ever admitted to being wrong about something? His followers would never admit that he's wrong.

    2. A cult leader is promoted as having exclusive knowledge of the truth. Voris works to tear down other sources of Catholic catechesis such as Fr Barron, EWTN, Catholic Answers, mainstream Catholic media, Bishops and priests (nearly all Catholic clergy in the US are disseminating lies and/or failing to teach Church doctrine according to Voris). Voris would have us believe that accurate Catholic teaching can only be obtained by purchasing a premium subscription to view his videos. Slowly but surely, Voris is planting the seed of doubt about any other source of Catholic teaching.

    3. A cult leader answers to no one. Who is Voris accountable to? His employees whom he can fire? He has no respect for Church hierarchy so we know he doesn't answer to his Bishop.

    4. A cult leader dictates how his followers should think, act, and feel. For example, if one doesn't agree with Voris's diatribe against Cdl Dolan for refusing to deny VP Biden communion, he dictates: "You breathe one word in defense of his actions and you sacrifice ANYTHING you ever say about the pro-life cause again! Don’t show up at pro-life functions. Don’t write articles, give guest appearances .. appear on stage .. jump on the radio or television airwaves. Nothing."

    5. In a cult there is no tolerance for critical inquiry, disagreement or even questions. Those who criticize will be demonized, blocked, isolated and given a name. Voris and his fans attack anyone who dares to disagree, sneeringly accuse them of not being Catholic and label them members of the "church of nice".

    6. The cult promotes a polarized us-versus-them mentality. This is Voris's signature play. Pit Catholics against the wicked Church hierarchy. Either you're with Voris or you're one of the despicable "church of nice" who "blather on and on about love and joy".

    7. Cult leaders don't readily provide full financial disclosure. Legitimate non-profits include links to financial statements on their donation page. Not so with ChurchMilitantTV. Voris publicized the salaries of other Catholics in the media. When criticized, Voris took no responsibility, blaming instead anonymous interested Catholics who researched and posted the salaries online. Voris wants us to believe that he innocently mentioned the salaries in a Vortex video which wasn't really about salaries. As he often does, he took the information out of context, failing to account for the fact that most of the salaries were not out of line for the cost of living in the specific locations of residence. We're left with no choice but to take Voris's word in the Vortex video that his $40K salary is the highest at CMTV.

    8. Cult members rationalize that their altruistic and pious ends justify whatever means they deem necessary. I have no doubt that Voris's followers engage in comments and online behavior that they would have considered unChristian and reprehensible before they hitched up with CMTV and modeled their behavior after Voris and his employees.

    9. Cult leaders and members lack spontaneity and a sense of humor. Voris is humorless and joyless. Where is Christ's joy mirrored in Voris's work? He may think he's being funny or clever with his use of sarcasm but sarcasm is merely hostility disguised as humor. Why is Voris so hostile? Why are his followers so joyless and quick to condemn?

    Where's the fruit?

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    1. There is a reason why the bishop of Detroit forced Voris to remove the name "Catholic" from his organization.

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    2. Voris condemns Pope bashing but tolerates it on his blog?

      Why am I not surprised?

      Ironically if I only ever saw Voris defense of Pope Francis and condemnation of Pope Bashing I would think he is a more solid Catholic then Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen himself.

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  5. Good blog post. Voris makes it up as he goes along. If there aren't any facts to back him up he delivers some hocus pocus to convince the crowd that the glass is half empty and the Church is on her last leg. Gerard Campos is on the money about the cult comparison. In his Vortex of the day, Voris complains about all the Catholic bloggers and personalities who try to clarify the words of Pope Francis when the secular press misinterprets them. Voris acts like a dictator. He says, "wait for the facts to come in", before writing to clarify what the Pope said. If only Voris would take his own advice. He's quick to charge the bishops of TX with ulterior motives in caring for immigrants. His evidence is very flimsy but he didn't wait for facts before jumping to a negative conclusion and getting people riled up against the bishops. He turns people against Cdl Dolan for closing Holy Innocents. The truth is that no decision has been made to close Holy Innocents. It happens to be on the list of possible Church closings, probably because it's located in a non-residential area. The decision about church closings will be made in September or October. For all Voris knows, Holy Innocents will remain open but Voris doesn't miss a chance to throw a punch at a bishop. He does his best to give Cdl Dolan a black eye before the facts are in. Voris is the last person who should be admonishing people to "wait for the facts to come in". He's not about saving souls. He's about building a following of disciples for himself. Anyone who has so many complaints about so many good Catholics has his own ulterior motive and it ain't a good one. Don't trust him.

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  6. Catholic in Brooklyn, if you received a comment from me do not publish it. I was in the middle of revising it and I might have sent it by mistake. Please let me know. Love your blog by the way.

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  7. I did not receive your comment. Thanks for the encouragement. It's a work in progress, just like me.

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