This is a quick post. I will be doing a more extensive post later. But I wanted to get this out as quickly as I can. Michael Voris did a Vortex episode on the Pre-Pride Mass at St. Francis of Assisi in Manhattan celebrated this past weekend. You can watch the video HERE. I was at that Mass specifically because I wanted to see it for myself and not have it filtered through people like Michael Voris. And I am so glad that I was there.
The first false statement Voris makes is the following:
Now this parish [St. Francis] had put out flyers and pasted on to its website that the regular 5:15pm Saturday Vigil Mass would be a “Pre-Pride Parade” Mass.Notice the words Voris uses: "Pre-Pride Parade Mass." As he says these words he shows this picture of the flyer:
Do you notice something missing there? The word "parade" is nowhere to be seen. Voris desperately wants you to think that this Mass was a celebration of the Gay Pride Parade to be held the following day, which is absolutely false.
He further pushes this lie by making the following statement:
The Mass began with an announcement that the Mass was for the homosexual Pride celebrations going on all over the city all weekend. It was being held in conjunction with that. Not surprising to hear that announced from the sanctuary since it was pasted all over the internet and billboards for weeks before.As Voris makes this statement, he shows video behind him of the Gay Pride Parade to emphasize the connection between the Mass and the Parade. The problem is, this is another complete falsehood. I recorded the entire Mass, and this is what was said, word for word:
Know that everyone is welcome here at St. Francis, especially this evening as we celebrate this pre-pride liturgy. If you are here for the first time, we are delighted to have you and if you are always here with us, I don't know what we would do without you.Not at any time was it said that the Mass "was for the homosexual Pride celebrations going on all over the city all weekend. It was being held in conjunction with that." Voris made that statement up out of whole cloth. Nothing coming close to those statements was ever said at any time. As I mentioned in my previous post, I was also at the Mass immediately preceding the "pre-pride" Mass. Except for the one statement about the "pre-pride liturgy", these two Masses were exactly the same.
At the beginning of his Vortex episode, Voris said the following:
And here's a noteworthy point, just moments before Mass began, as I walked up the front steps, a gentleman who was an usher, it appeared to be because he had a name tag on, stepped in front of me and said,”Michael Voris you're not welcome in here, we don't want you coming in here”. And I said to him,”You can't stop me coming in here, I'm a practicing Catholic and I can go to Mass.” Now, that has a special ring of irony to it because not moments later we all stood up and sang this song that they passed out in the flyer, our opening hymn, “All are Welcome”.
Considering how Voris blatantly lies about the St. Francis flyer and what was said at the beginning of the Mass, one does not know whether to believe the above statement or not. The only thing I know to be true is that we sang the opening hymn, "All Are Welcome."
But if Voris was confronted when he went in, can anyone really wonder why? He wasn't there just to report on the Mass. He was there to push his own agenda, which is that the "Church of Nice" is thoroughly corrupt and we should all reject it. And as can be seen here, he will just make up his own version which has nothing to do with reality to try to destroy the "Church of Nice" as he calls it.
But if Voris was confronted when he went in, can anyone really wonder why? He wasn't there just to report on the Mass. He was there to push his own agenda, which is that the "Church of Nice" is thoroughly corrupt and we should all reject it. And as can be seen here, he will just make up his own version which has nothing to do with reality to try to destroy the "Church of Nice" as he calls it.
I did not see Voris at the Mass, and I am glad I didn't because he may have brought out a very un-Christian side of me. I would have had to stop one of the many friars present to hear my confession right then and there.
I will be doing a more extensive post on this about the remainder of his Vortex episode, including posting a transcript of the entire sermon given that day at St. Francis so you can see for yourself exactly what was said.
Michael Voris opens every Vortex episode by saying, "welcome to The Vortex where lies and falsehoods are trapped and exposed." It would be much more truthful to say, "Welcome to the Vortex, where lies and falsehoods are served up on a silver platter."
How anyone can defend this man is beyond me.
More to come.
More to come.
English is not my native language so I would really like to know what is the difference between the terms "Pre-Pride" and "Pre-Pride Parade". I thought "Pride" is the synonim with "Pride Parade", especially in this context in which you have a rainbow flag and ambiguous statements on the invitation. We can pretend that the name "Pre-Pride Mass" has nothing to do with the gay pride parade and subtile condoning of sodomy, but then we are pretending to be blind.
ReplyDeleteI think the main problem here is that you are bothered with the agenda of Michael Voris so much that you in the same time miss and blindly ignore the obvious gay agenda behind that "Pre-Pride Mass". If Voris was intentionally lying (and I don't believe he would do that), I won't defend him, but even if he was, that doesn't change the facts, and the facts are that many people in this and other similar parishes throughout western world openly reject the Church teaching on homosexuality and take communion, and the priests in those churches obviously do nothing to change that situation. If that doesn't bother you, then I really don't know what will have to happen to open your eyes. Maybe when we have a first gay "wedding" in some catholic parish...
Even then, I think catholics like you will ignore the facts, pretend everything is fine and kill the messenger
He is intentionally lying. He is trying to link the Mass with the parade and giving totally false statements. The point is that he claimed the St Francis website said this was a "pre pride parade" Mass when no such thing was stated. Also, he made completely false statements about what was said at Mass. He has no credibility whatsoever.
DeleteYou reply to my comment but are ignoring practically everything I said. I repeat - the blatant gay agenda at that parish (and other parishes) is far greater problem than Voris and his comments! And you are acting like Voris is the only problem and gay agenda doesn't exist.
DeleteAnd telling that "Pre-Pride Mass" has nothing to do with gay pride is ridiculous! Can you give me any reasonable explanation why would they held a "Pre-Pride Mass" on the weekend when the Gay pride is held if they didn't want people to connect those things? What do you say about openly homosexual people who go to mass and make sacrilege by receiving communion and everything they hear from the pulpit is that "prejudice and heart hardness" (against sodomy, of course) are a bad thing and that God loves them no matter what they do.
You wonder why 60% of Catholics in USA support gay marriage? - It is precisely because these things. Why would some ordinary catholic be opposed to gay marriage when his parish organises "Pre-Pride Masses" or has a "LGBT ministry" that promotes homosexual lifestyle in practice?
I didn't ignore it. But I will ask you this: .have ever attended St. Francis of Assisi in Manhattan? If you have not, then you have only second hand information. St. Francis has daily adoration, daily confessions (always with very long lines), several Masses every day, they feed the homeless, and many other programs. We also have a very large homosexual population in NYC. Are you suggesting that they just ignore them?
DeleteI will be doing a more extensive post on this, and I would ask that you take a look at that as well.
Thanks for your comment.
I have never attended St.Francis but that doesn't mean I only have second hand informatons. Their gay agenda is clearly visible from their web page and comments of the parishioners. I already gave you an example yesterday of a pro-gay comment on their facebook page which they supported. There is no excuse for that and I don't know how can you so easy go over it without questioning that?
DeleteYou mention all the good stuff they do, but that is irrelevant for this topic! Good stuff still can't justify the dissent against Church teaching. Poison is poison, no matter if you mix it with sugar. If they cared, I mean REALLY cared, for gay people in their parish, they would preach them the Truth and not some watered-down feel-good version of Christianty! What is the point of bringing people to the church and then keeping quiet about their (public!) sins? How can people be saved if they are not told that they need conversion? I don't mean they should ignore gay people or be rude to them, but they have to say what needs to be said! Keeping quiet and tolerating sin and sacrilege is not charitable!
If you still insist on the claim that this parish is perfectly loyal to the Church's teaching than give me only one example (from their web page, facebook page, homilies or anything) in which they say that living in active homosexuality is sinful. Only one example...
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ReplyDeleteOne question I would ask you, Terry, is how do you reach out to the Gay community? Society accepts them and tells them that what they are doing is perfectly fine. The Catholic Church says their actions are disordered, which of course they are. But how do you make them turn away from an accepting society to a church that says they are wrong? How do you reach them? Is it by telling them they're all rotten sinners headed for hell? Or is it by creating a warm, accepting environment, and then when they realize that you really do care about them and are not out just to destroy them, then you start talking about how they change their lives.
DeleteThis was Gay Pride Weekend here in NYC. St. Francis wanted to try to get them into Church, and the Church was packed. The Church used language and symbols that would get their attention and draw them in. I don't see how that is a bad thing. They were there at the Sacrifice of the Mass, and it was a beautiful Mass.. Voris doesn't tell you that.
Before you cut me off entirely, please see my next post and see if it makes any more sense to you.
"This was Gay Pride Weekend here in NYC. St. Francis wanted to try to get them into Church, and the Church was packed. The Church used language and symbols that would get their attention and draw them in. I don't see how that is a bad thing."
DeleteThe main mission of the Church is to convert sinners, not only to draw them in the church. How can you convert a sinner if you use language and symbols which make them think their sin is perfectly fine and acceptable? Whether you want to admit it or not, the language and symbols St.Francis is using do exactly that - condone the sinners in their sin. That's why it is a bad thing...
I understand where you are coming from and why you are upset. I do hope you will read my next post on this. I just posted the text of the sermon from that Mass. You might want to take a look at it.
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DeleteThanks so much for your reply, Terry. I hope you won't mind, but I would like to do another post in responding to you and get your reaction to that. Thanks. Hopefully I will have it posted today.
DeleteYou can't have a Mass "proudly" celebrating grave sin, it's sacrilege. And that's what "Gay Pride" events are about, celebrating homosexual sexual relationships.
ReplyDeleteWelcoming same sex attracted folks at Mass, absolutely! And completely normal Welcoming people who know they are sinners and are seeking God, well of course. But if we're talking specifically about a sexual disorder, there shouldn't be any lack of clarity that Catholics believe in chastity, and we're all called to holiness, and same sex attracted people are as capable of chaste holy lives as anyone.
I am not particularly a Michael Voris fan. But I do not see him trying to misrepresent this.
What about the deliberate lies that he told?
DeleteMichael Voris does not lie.
ReplyDeleteYou dislike the man and are biased. Every time you mention him on your blog its with extreme biased against him. Your blog is earning a reputation for it, so don't be surprised when people who like, know and trust Michael Voris come here to tell you how wrong you are.
Everyone knows when you splash the word "pride" against a rainbow it is about LBGT's and when it says "pre-pride Mass" we all (except apparently for you) KNOW it is 'pre-pride PARADE' since it is the Mass before the parade that weekend. I don't know how YOU missed that, when the rest of the world understood it, but that's your issue.
It's of course, entirely your prerogative to call names and slander another Catholic who works day after day teaching the Catholic Faith faithfully, but as another Catholic I warn you what you are doing is slandering a good man who is faithful to the Church. Pray on it.
In Christ,
Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner
Please explain why Voris reported statements that were not made at the Mass. I was there, I recorded it. I know exactly what was said, and Voris did not tell the truth.
DeleteI did explain it and so did others you simply can't seem to understand what "PRE-PRIDE" means. Voris says it and YOU say it in your quote above [Know that everyone is welcome here at St. Francis, especially this evening as we celebrate this pre-pride liturgy. ]. Its right there, you simply do not see what you do not want to see. Open your eyes.
ReplyDeleteThe statement by Voris was not that "gay pride parade" was implied as you indicated. He very matter of factly said that this was stated on the website and flyers:
Delete"Now this parish [St. Francis] had put out flyers and pasted on to its website that the regular 5:15pm Saturday Vigil Mass would be a “Pre-Pride Parade” Mass."
That is simply not true. If Voris had said it was implied, as you say, that would be understandable. But he did not indicate it was implied. He claimed that this is what the website and flyers said. That is false.
But that was not what I was actually talking about. I was referring to this statement by Voris:
"The Mass began with an announcement that the Mass was for the homosexual Pride celebrations going on all over the city all weekend. It was being held in conjunction with that. Not surprising to hear that announced from the sanctuary since it was pasted all over the internet and billboards for weeks before."
As I said, I recorded the entire Mass, and I give you the exact quote verbatim:
"Know that everyone is welcome here at St. Francis, especially this evening as we celebrate this pre-pride liturgy. If you are here for the first time, we are delighted to have you and if you are always here with us, I don't know what we would do without you."
There was nothing, absolutely nothing said at the Mass that this "Mass was for all the homosexual Pride celebrations going on all over the city." That was a complete fabrication on the part of Voris.
Would you care to explain that?
Don't be ridiculous! What do you THINK "pre-pride Mass" meant?? EVERYONE knows it was PRE-PRIDE PARADE Mass - everyone except for you apparently! This parish is NOTORIOUS for support gay pride PARADES, so much so that Cardinal Dolan has FORBIDDEN THEM from carrying a banner with the parish name on it- so they defiantly wore t-shirts and carried a blank banner and told everyone Dolan has tried and failed to silence them. Go read the CNN story on it. They have done this for more than a dozen years- this year was just a REPEAT of previous years! Everyone, EVERYONE knows it was a pre-pride PARADE Mass that is what they do EVERY year.
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DeleteYou really ought to get your facts straight before your start pontificating. The church in question is St. Francis of Assisi. You are talking about St. Francis Xavier, a completely different church. St. Francis of Assisi has never participated in the gay pride parade. I think that Voris has tried to conflate the two churches, making them essentially one church, but that is another falsehood. One is on 31st Street, and one is on 15th Street. Other than both being Catholic (which you, in your wisdom would say they are not), they are not connected in any way.
You are going to defend your boy no matter what, despite the fact that he told deliberate falsehoods and misrepresented. You say you know what is in the minds of the people at St. Francis of Assisi. Maybe you are the one who needs to be careful about making judgments. You are judging the hearts, minds and souls of the people at St. Francis of Assisi, and you obviously know nothing about them, not even what Church they are.
Voris is a genius at spreading division. Your comments are a prime example. The Catholic Church is the ark of salvation to the world. But instead of reaching out with this saving message, we are too busy judging and attacking one another. And people like Michael Voris are at the center of this division.
One other thing. Would you mind not YELLING. It is very rude and reflects very badly on you.
DeleteCatholic in Brooklyn, If you don't tell you children not to play in the road, when they get hit by a car, whose fault is it? The absence of a message can be just as telling as a message. When St Francis church doesn't tell its parishioners to repent of their sins, what is the message.
ReplyDeleteI used to enjoy reading many of your blog posts but find that over time you seem to be drifting away from Catholic teaching to a more relativistic attitude. You may need to be careful what you are being influenced by. Are you watching too much of the mass media today that seems to be doing Satan's work for him? I don't know, but when you start judging your fellow Catholic that is trying to bring back those who have wondered off the course, you are crossing the line. Michael Voris does upset me sometimes. Many times I disagree with him. But his message isn't meant to drive away sinners. They won't watch him anyway. His message is to try to spur us to action, to get us off our easy chair and help bring back the kind of Mercy that made the Church so great in the past.
Today there is so much confusion in teaching that most US Catholics don't believe the Churches teaching, they hear one thing from their priest and another from the Church. This is the kind of message St Francis in NY is giving out. Gay is okay, the teaching against homosexual acts is not.
Thanks for your comment, Gary. I understand your concern about proper teaching by the Church. And certainly an important part of the Church's role in the world is to point out sin. But as I have pointed out in other posts, our world no longer recognizes sin. When the secular world hears someone talking about sin, they immediately tune out, figuring such talk is not only bigoted and hateful, but nuts.
DeleteOn the Saturday of Gay Pride Weekend here in NYC, St. Francis of Assisi Church was reaching out to homosexuals who have left the church and embraced a very sinful lifestyle. They are immersed in it, and they have the approval of society. They have been taught well that anyone who is against them is nothing more than a hater. Do you really think it would have been helpful to invite them into the Church to experience the presence of Jesus Christ, and then hit them over the head with the message, you are a sinner and unless you repent, you will go to hell. Now, that is true, but what good would it have done? Do you invite someone to your house just to tell them how wrong they are? Do you think that person would ever come back again?
St. Francis of Assisi invited these people to the Church and told them that like lost sheep, they will not survive without Holy Mother Church, that they must place their love of Jesus Christ above their prejudices, for not to do so means they will not survive. I think that's a pretty powerful message for people who is not use to being told they are wrong.
It should be noted that at no time during that Mass was homosexuality condoned in any way. It was not even mentioned. If you know something that I don't, if you have specific information that St. Francis of Assisi Church in Manhattan is promoting the homosexual lifestyle, I would appreciate your sharing it. And I mean that sincerely.
Look at how Our Lord treated sinners. They responded to Him not because He told them how wrong they were and that they had better repent. They responded to His love and mercy, to the great compassion He showed them. Then when they realized they were in a safe and loving environment with Him, He would say, "Go and sin no more."
Does that make sense to you? Do you understand what I am trying to say? I really would like to hear from you if still think I am wrong.
If you have been reading my blog, you know how much I love Holy Mother Church. You know that I completely support her teachings and her dogma. I hope you will continue reading my blog and give me your feedback.
What church do you belong to? Because it sure isn't Catholic. You pray outside abortion clinics, yet you give to CCHD who uses your money to pay for contraceptives and abortions around the world (see Michael Hitchborn's 1000 page report on this.) You support a parish that celebrated a "pride" mass which is an anathema to God. Did you realize that your assisting at that mass was a sin? Mass is about His sacrifice, not man's. Pride is one of the 7 deadly sins, or has the Novus Ordo church taken that out too? You must have taken the short form of the Marian consecration and not the Montfort one, or else you would not have made this serious mistake.
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