"Good for him," Dolan said in an interview with NBC's "Meet the Press" airing Sunday.
"I would have no sense of judgment on him," Dolan continued. "God bless ya. I don't think, look, the same Bible that tells us, that teaches us well about the virtues of chastity and the virtue of fidelity and marriage also tells us not to judge people. So I would say, 'Bravo.'"The Catholic blogosphere, almost without exception, condemned this statement and came very close to calling Cardinal Dolan an apostate. They say that he has basically condoned the sin of homosexuality by telling the world that there is nothing wrong with it.
Interestingly, that is not what the secular world thought at all, especially the gay community. The Advocate, the website for the gay magazine, very matter of factly reported this statement by Cardinal Dolan with no comment. But its readers had comments, and not one of them (with the exception of a religious zealot) felt that Cardinal Dolan was condoning the gay lifestyle:
- Nathaniel Brown · Top Commenter
What a hypocrite - praises him, then denies him marriage, communion, participation in the St Patrick's day parade...
Paul Stitelman · Top Commenter · Hunter College
Dolan seems to think it is OK for Sam to come out so long as he doesn't do anything about it. His non judgmental stance has its limits.
Paolo Zancanaro
Dolan is an insincere person and cares only about personal gain. Corrupt. Look at what he did in Milwaukee regarding the treatment of sexual abuse victims. He will say and do what he needs to do in order to gain what he wants. Plus, who cares what he thinks?
Randy Bishop · Owner at Thumbs Up Roofing Solutions
He talks about the Gospel... He must have his own Gospel... because the Gospel that comes from Yahweh states that homosexuality is an ABOMINATION to HIM.
JUST READ IT PEOPLE... ALL OF YOU ARE JUST ENABLING THESE PEOPLE TO GO TO HELL.
Chris Lamparello · Top Commenter · NYU
Look, I'm glad that Dolan said this, and I don't want to rain on the parade, but we all know that if this were twenty years ago, he'd be damning the guy to hell. However, this is indeed progress in the sense that we've moved the ball so far down the field that even an archbishop knows he can't use the usual rubber stamp of condemnation so freely.
Alan Wool · Top Commenter · Broward College
Dolan wears a purple beanie. And he wears a dress. He must be a closet gay himself. Purple beanie with a black dress---I do not think that it goes together.
Bob Warsham · Follow · Dearborn, Michigan
Well, isn't it interesting that the Prince Cardinal gas bag of NYC sounds surprisingly like his boss, Francis...
Fausto Fernandez · Top Commenter · Medical Director at HIBP Medical Center
The Catholic Church is an absolute monarchy, and the hierarchy falls in line with their king, the Pope. We can't expect that Church will ever accept gay marriage or choice. But we CAN expect that the Church will not oppose the secular acceptance of gay marriage, and will reign in all those extremists like the Knights of Columbus and the Catholic League.
Jack Fritscher · Author, Leather Historian, editor of Drummer Magazine at Self
Yeah. Right. And here is the Bishop of Santa Rosa who is directly subject to the Archbishop of San Francisco. Read this: ex-porn star, demons conjured by gay sex.... http://www.pressdemocrat.com/ article/20140306/articles/ 140309710
Adrian Candelario · Follow · Top Commenter · Staten Island, New York
Seems like the Cardinal is realizing his antigay rhetoric isn't helping his image or political power. I don't put much faith in his sudden change of heart, though.
Gerard Rodgers · Top Commenter · St. Mel's College
the same wan knows how to hide and transfer dirty lucre from CCSA victims
Another gay website, washingtonblade.com,, reported on the interview in an article entitled, "N.Y. Archbishop Uncomfortable With Civil Unions." This article basically went right over the "bravo" comment, concentrating more on the part of the interview where Cardinal Dolan said he could not support civil unions. From the article:
"Dolan’s main point during his “Meet the Press” was that Francis was shrewdly adapting the message of the church in a time when public sentiment is changing, but church doctrine remains the same.Also from the article:
“And so Francis is reminding us, look, if we come across as some crabby, nay saying shrill, we’re not gonna win anybody. If we come across as a loving, embracing holy mother church who says, “Come on in. We love you. We need you. We want you. And once you get to know us, then maybe we can invite you to the conversion of heart that is at the core of the gospel. And then maybe we can talk about changing behavior. That’s a very effective pedagogy.”
"Evan Wolfson, president of Freedom to Marry, chided Dolan for his remarks, saying they were contrary to the position of the pope.
“Since Day 1 of this papacy, Cardinal Dolan has sought to minimize the teachings of Francis and the new and welcome message of inclusion, but the Cardinal is out of step with the Pope, out of step with the great majority of American Catholics who support the freedom to marry, and out of step with the true values of love and the Golden Rule,” Wolfson said.Wolfson has completely misrepresented Pope Francis in his rush to condemn Cardinal Dolan. However, the point is that Cardinal Dolan can't win. He gets hit by Catholics who say he is condoning homosexuality, and he gets hit by homosexuals who say he refuses to accept them.
There is no way both sides on this issue can be right. So what is the truth?
Like most people, I didn't know what to make of Cardinal Dolan's statement at first. But I am learning that we should never be quick to judge. Pope Francis, in the interview given to America magazine, made a very wise statement in regard to rash judgments:
I am always wary of decisions made hastily. I am always wary of the first decision, that is, the first thing that comes to my mind if I have to make a decision. This is usually the wrong thing. I have to wait and assess, looking deep into myself, taking the necessary time. The wisdom of discernment redeems the necessary ambiguity of life and helps us find the most appropriate means, which do not always coincide with what looks great and strong.
As I wrote above, Cardinal Dolan's statement did not sound good to me when I first heard it. But instead of making a quick judgment on it, I gave it some thought. Cardinal Dolan, in his comment, said that the bible tells us not to judge. That made me think of the story of the woman taken in adultery and brought to Christ. From John 8:3-11:
"3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4 and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” 6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.
But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger.7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.
9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there.10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”
11 “No one, sir,” she said.
“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”
It is interesting to note that the only ones to whom our Lord ever said any words of condemnation were the Pharisees, the religious leaders of the day who held themselves out as sinless and showed no mercy or compassion to anyone else. Never once did our Lord condemn any of those we would consider great sinners, such as this woman in the story. Our Lord did not even condemn Judas, the one who betrayed him. However, you can be sure that if Christ was walking the earth in our time and acted towards "sinners" as shown in the Gospels, the Catholic blogosphere would, in no uncertain terms, label Him as an apostate who is destroying the teachings of the church.
The Catholic blogosphere is always taking Cardinal Dolan to task for not condemning sinners. They jumped all over him when he refused to say that Governor Andrew Cuomo, a Catholic who supports abortion and homosexuality, is not a Catholic in good standing. From the New York Times:
"Cardinal Timothy M. Dolan did not intend to question Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo’s standing in the Roman Catholic Church, despite the governor’s support for abortion rights, the cardinal’s spokesman said on Wednesday.
The spokesman, Joseph Zwilling, was seeking to clarify comments the cardinal made in a radio interview on Tuesday, when the cardinal said, in response to a question about Mr. Cuomo’s standing in the church, that “that’s one of the things the governor and I talk about.”
But on Wednesday, Mr. Zwilling said that the cardinal, who is the archbishop of New York, “would not, and did not, suggest the governor might not be a Catholic in good standing going forward.”
Mr. Zwilling also said that another of Cardinal Dolan’s remarks — “That’s something that I talk turkey with him about” — was meant to address the issue of abortion, not “the governor’s faith.”
“I do realize that was part of the question he was asked, and so I do understand how the answer could have been misinterpreted,” Mr. Zwilling said in an e-mail. “But I assure you that was not what the cardinal was saying.”I find this story very much echoing the story of the woman taken in adultery. There is no doubt that she had committed a great sin, and at that time, she was subject to stoning under the law. Yet, our Lord refused to condemn her. And there is no doubt that Andrew Cuomo stands in opposition to many of the major teachings of the Catholic Church. He supports abortion and in fact wants to expand it here in New York so that abortions can be performed right up to the time of birth. Cuomo is also a big supporter of same sex marriage, and it was his support that drove this bill in New York State. And in his personal life, Gov Cuomo has a live-in relationship with his girlfriend. These are certainly not the actions of a Catholic in good standing.
So how can Cardinal Dolan make such a statement about the governor? Cardinal Dolan has made it very clear that he is in complete opposition to the positions of Governor Cuomo. But, like our Lord, he will not chastise Cuomo in public. I bolded those last words because that is pertinent to understanding what His Eminence is doing and to understanding the whole message of mercy as exemplified by Jesus Christ.
In an article from a Patheos blog, which you can read HERE, Sarah Bailey quotes from a Newsweek article about Cardinal Dolan:
Dolan insists that it’s not a fight he wanted. He arrived on the national stage with the reputation of a conciliator, one who believes that the church should not be in the business of weeding out those who dispute some of its teachings. As archbishop of Milwaukee, he disagreed with those bishops who advised punishment of politicians (by denial of holy communion or parishioners’ votes) who supported policies the church opposes. … [Dolan says,] “I would be one that would much prefer to sit down with people, to say, let’s sit down and talk about this, let me try to be a pastor first, let me try a conversion of heart.”Our Lord did not condemn sinners in public, Pope Francis does not condemn sinners in public, and Cardinal Dolan does not condemn sinners in public. You may say, what about Canon 915, which forbids communion to those who go against teachings of the Church. To that I answer, why didn't Christ agree to condemn the woman taken in the act of committing adultery? After all, there was no doubt of her guilt. Our Lord did not condemn her, but he did admonish her IN PRIVATE to go and sin no more. That seems to be the method that Cardinal Dolan wishes to use.
It is always easy to sit on the sidelines and see everything in black and white. It is easy to say one thing is wrong and the other is right, and to judge every situation alike. The problem is all people are different, all situations are different. Thank God that He judges each one of us individually. He looks at our particular situation and the extenuating circumstances.
Consider the woman taken in adultery in the story from the Gospels. Maybe she lived in an abusive marriage with a husband who constantly mistreated her, and then someone came along who had shown kindness to her. Her response was wrong, but wouldn't her circumstances mitigate some of her sin?
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| Michael Sam |
I will give one more example from the Gospels. This concerns Christ's last moments on earth as a mortal human being. He was dying on the cross surrounded by two thieves. At the beginning of the crucifixion, both thieves mocked and insulted him. However, as the afternoon progressed, one thief, known as Dismas, had a complete change of heart. He rebuked the other thief and then reached out to the dying Christ and said, remember me when you come into your kingdom.
What brought about this complete transformation, one so complete that Christ promised Dismas he would be in heaven that day? Dismas watched as Our Lord was surrounded by those cheering on his death, and Dismas saw Christ respond not with condemnation but with love and forgiveness. And even when the thieves were mocking him, Christ did not rebuke them in any way. The only rebuke they received from Christ was the lack of condemnation. Would Dismas have repented so completely if Our Lord had instead turned to him and said, you are a sinner and you need to repent? This would have much more likely pushed him completely into his sin and he would have spiritually perished.
We must also take notice that the other thief was not moved at all by the show of our Lord's compassion, which says that not everyone will respond to mercy. But that surely does not mean we should not show mercy as our Lord did.
We all need to take the advice of Pope Francis and not be so quick to make rash judgments. The world does not need our condemnation but needs what we have been given, which is the love, mercy and forgiveness of Jesus Christ.
 |
| “And so Francis is reminding us, look, if we come across as some crabby, nay saying shrill, we’re not gonna win anybody. If we come across as a loving, embracing holy mother church who says, “Come on in. We love you. We need you. We want you. And once you get to know us, then maybe we can invite you to the conversion of heart that is at the core of the gospel. And then maybe we can talk about changing behavior. That’s a very effective pedagogy.” Timothy Cardinal Dolan |
I have always enjoyed your blog, even though I don`t agree with your recent posts about traditionalists, but I disagree with your use of the passage from the Gospel about the woman caught in adultery. Our Lord did deflect attention away from the woman by His famous quote of "throwing the first stone", but He didn`t say "bravo", or, even worse, "God bless ya"! The fact that his eminence said these things, whether out of ignorance (I can`t see how that is possible though), or, even worse, out of wanting to maintain the worldly status quo that pervades our world, is inexcusable. Even for those that defend the cardinal, they must at least agree that his choice of words was poor, and that he is adding to the moral chaos that pervades the members of the Church and our fair nation.
ReplyDeleteIt is interesting that Catholics seem to be scandalized by Cardinal Dolan's remarks, but the secular world seems to totally understand that His Eminence, despite these words, does not support the homosexual lifestyle in any way.
DeleteI believe alot of people are taking a rather short sighted spin on his Eminence's remark about Michael Sam.
ReplyDeleteWhile praising Sam for his courage and quantifying that we should not judge him, Cardinal Dolan also touted the virtues of of chasity and fidelity in marriage.
These virtues are the only proper sexual expressions, whether gay or straight.
That being said, I do wish that the Cardinal had been a little bit more clear. I wish he would said something to the effect that being gay or straight is not the issue, that living a life in proper chasity is the issue.
That, if nothing else just, to give the narrow-minded less ammo.
"That, if nothing else just, to give the narrow-minded less ammo."
DeleteThe Cardinal does seem to be very good at providing "ammo" as you say, and that certainly seems to be true in this case, but sometimes it isn't so much WHAT is said as WHO says it.
You are an amazing woman. This is a winning post - thanks very much for your thoughtful insights in this unbelievably confusing moment in Church history.
ReplyDeletePlease pray for me.
Bravo, neo-con hackery. Bravo.
ReplyDeleteThank you for your comment. It adds so much to the discussion.
DeleteI came here from the blog of Elliot Bougis and after reading your conversations with him on the blog.
ReplyDeleteI want to, out of Catholic charity, point out some problems in your reasoning.
1) You assert that the Cardinal's comments are fine because none of the prominent gay news outlets seem to think positively or have noticed it
But this is a misunderstanding on your part. The fact that the Cardinal gave some bad advise/comment does not suddenly become neutral advise or good advise depending on how the people react to the comment. If anything, you should be thanking God that they did not use his words to further justify sinful acts.
Just as me blaspheming is a bad thing regardless of whether someone gets offended or picks up on it, bad advise is bad advise regardless of ones reaction to it.
2) Jesus acted like Cardinal Dolan in the case of Adultery
Here there are lots of misunderstandings.
You claim that the Adulteress did not show signs of repentance. Well, does the gospel describe her attitude to you? That she seemed pretty obstinate about carrying out her adulterous ways and had identified herself with a community that is out to justify the act of adultery around the world as a good thing? All I see here is you reading back your own views in to the gospels.
You do the same with the thieves during the crucifixion.
Yet, you also forget the positive examples of public rebuke by St. John the Baptist of Herod. You are forgetting that this is the man who Jesus hailed as the greatest prophet. But you have forgotten these passages.
We can also look a little deeper in to the New Testament. You seem to have missed St. Paul's chastising of the Corinthian community in 1 Corinthians 5 regarding their inaction toward the sinner in sexual immorality.
We can also look at the history of the Church and find ample examples where heretics were rebuked publicly by the Saints when to do so threatened their own life.
There is also an elephant in the room that you are missing. You have conveniently forgotten about the Pharisees in the gospels. Perhaps you conveniently identified them as "NOT SINNERS". So you forgot how Jesus himself very publicly rebuked them multiple times.
I think it is safe to say that you are lacking some understanding here and trying perhaps a bit too hard to justify what is clearly scandalizing.
3) Jesus spoke in a confusing way as well.
Hmm, did he? The bread of life discourse in John 6 was pretty straight forward. Jesus meant what he said and people left because they couldn't accept it. If he was misunderstood, why did he not stop them and explain?
Second, Jesus has already given the revelation to the Church. The duty of these men is not to give you some new revelation that has not yet been understood. It is to rather pass down and explain what has already been said. To that extent, the Cardinal (and many others prelates in our age) failed because he seemed to not explain Church teaching too well.
See my reply to your comment here:
Deletehttp://catholicinbrooklyn.blogspot.com/2014/03/my-response-to-comment-regarding.html
When you get a chance, Catholic in Brooklyn, check out the following link:
ReplyDeletehttps://catholiccitizens.org/news/70907/ny-parish-hosting-celebration-notorious-gay-club/
Michael Voris wants Cardinal Dolan and a bunch of other cardinals to resign! *sigh*
ReplyDeletehttps://www.churchmilitant.com/video/episode/vortex-nothing-short-of-resigning
Hardly a new message from Voris. I think he, Voris, would like to set himself up as pope and rule the church via fiat. After all, he seems to know better than anyone else how things should be done. He has told us that he is the definition of Catholic. There is no one more Catholic than he is. Take out all the bishops and priests - no problem to him. What do we need those guys for? There is the small problem that we can't have a Church without them, but let's not get bogged down by details
Delete