Thoughtful men, with hearts craving the truth, have come to seek in the Catholic Church the road which leads with surety to eternal life. They have understood that they could not cleave to Jesus Christ as the Head of the Church if they did not belong to the Body of Jesus Christ which is the Church. Nor could they ever hope to possess in all its purity the faith of Jesus Christ if they were to reject its legitimate teaching authority entrusted to Peter and his successors.
Pope Leo XIII
The Catholic Church in the midst of a terrific spiritual war. This is a war started by those who believe that it is their duty to wrest the Church away from Pope Francis, the Vicar of Christ, whom they believe is trying to destroy the Church.
Those who are engaging in this war against Pope Francis will be the first to tell you that they are actually the most loyal of Catholics. In fact, they believe that they are probably the only true Catholics on earth. They are certainly more Catholic than Pope Francis, whom many of these "most loyal of Catholics" label as a heretic.
But what these saviors of the Church don't seem to realize is that if they succeed, they will actually destroy the papacy and the Church which they claim to love.
But how can that be? How is it possible to constantly express your boundless love for Holy Mother Church and vow to defend her against all who threaten her, and at the same time actually be the ones to destroy her (as if that was possible, which it is not)?
The conservative/traditional Catholics who basically view the post-Vatican II Church as apostate are always accusing the rest of us of being ignorant of basic Church teachings. They will tell you that one of the main reasons for Catholics falling away from the Church is bad catechesis.
The enemies of Pope Francis also complain about "cafeteria Catholics" - those who accept the teachings of the Church which they like and agree with, and reject the teachings they don't like.
However, in their war against the Holy Father, those who oppose Pope Francis have shown either ignorance of basic Church teaching or a "cafeteria" approach to basic Church teachings. Or maybe they are guilty of both ignorance and cafeteria beliefs.
How else to explain the actions of those who call themselves Catholic and yet stand in opposition to the supreme Christ-appointed authority on earth. the Pope?
Any true Catholic will tell you that a fundamental belief of Catholicism is the acceptance of the Divine origin of the Papacy. There is a reason why those who hate Catholics often refer to us as "Papists."
Catholic belief says that the Vicar of Christ holds a position unlike that of any other human being on earth. The only one to whom the Pope answers is God Himself. No human being has a right to stand in judgment of the Holy Father.
The Pope is the supreme human authority over every Catholic. We, as Catholics, must accept all teaching from the Chair of Peter. Jesus Christ literally gave the Keys to the Kingdom to Peter, and told him basically that he is the man, and whatever Peter says will be echoed in heaven itself.
As I have already quoted so many times, Matthew 16:18-19:
We see this teaching put forward in the Catechism:
In April 2018, they published an article entitled, "Cardinals can declare that a heretical pope has ‘lost his office’: Church historian." The title alone is heresy since, according to REAL Church teaching, no human being can judge the Pope. This includes cardinals, who derive their authority directly from the Pope.
The Church historian referred to by Lifesitenews is Professor Roberto de Mattei, another avowed enemy of Pope Francis. de Mattei made his statements at a 2018 Catholic Family News conference. CFN is a traditionalist organization founded by the late Fr. Nicholas Gruner, who died very suddenly in April 2015. At the time of his death, Gruner had been suspended from the priesthood for almost 30 years for direct disobedience to his Ordinary. Gruner constantly denounced the post Vatican II Church.
This Lifesitenews article seems like it was written to prepare us for Vigano's rebellion against Pope Francis.
From the Lifesitenews article:
Also, Christ did not give the Keys of the Kingdom to a "mission." It is not a "mission" that has authority over the Church. A human being, Peter, was given supreme authority over the Church.
We either believe that the Holy Spirit is in charge of the Church or we don't. Obviously, de Mattei believes the Holy Spirit has fallen down on the job and the gates of hell have prevailed.
Oh wait. That is what the Protestants have. And look where that has gotten them! Tens of thousands of Protestant sects with everyone thinking they are right and everyone else is wrong.
Now comes the kicker. Sedevecantism rears its ugly demonic head:
The real heresy is to compare the Papacy to the United States presidency and the College of Cardinals to Congress. de Mattei's scenario in effect allows the Cardinals to convict the Pope of high crimes and misdemeanors, i.e. heresy, and then "impeach", "indict" and throw the Holy Father out of office.
This is heresy in the first degree and comes directly from the Destroyer!
de Mattei stated that Pope Francis "does not lose his office until his heresy becomes manifest." de Mattei clarified that this had not happened when he made this statement.
However, in their war against the Holy Father, those who oppose Pope Francis have shown either ignorance of basic Church teaching or a "cafeteria" approach to basic Church teachings. Or maybe they are guilty of both ignorance and cafeteria beliefs.
How else to explain the actions of those who call themselves Catholic and yet stand in opposition to the supreme Christ-appointed authority on earth. the Pope?
Any true Catholic will tell you that a fundamental belief of Catholicism is the acceptance of the Divine origin of the Papacy. There is a reason why those who hate Catholics often refer to us as "Papists."
Catholic belief says that the Vicar of Christ holds a position unlike that of any other human being on earth. The only one to whom the Pope answers is God Himself. No human being has a right to stand in judgment of the Holy Father.
The Pope is the supreme human authority over every Catholic. We, as Catholics, must accept all teaching from the Chair of Peter. Jesus Christ literally gave the Keys to the Kingdom to Peter, and told him basically that he is the man, and whatever Peter says will be echoed in heaven itself.
As I have already quoted so many times, Matthew 16:18-19:
18 And I tell you that you are Peter and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.
19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.Further, in Luke 10:16, Our Lord told the Apostles, “Whoever listens to you listens to me. Whoever rejects you rejects me. And whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me”
We see this teaching put forward in the Catechism:
892 Divine assistance is also given to the successors of the apostles, teaching in communion with the successor of Peter, and, in a particular way, to the bishop of Rome, pastor of the whole Church, when, without arriving at an infallible definition and without pronouncing in a “definitive manner,” they propose in the exercise of the ordinary Magisterium a teaching that leads to better understanding of Revelation in matters of faith and morals. To this ordinary teaching the faithful “are to adhere to it with religious assent” which, though distinct from the assent of faith, is nonetheless an extension of it.In the Vatican II document Lumen Gentium #25 (1964):
In matters of faith and morals, the bishops speak in the name of Christ and the faithful are to accept their teaching and adhere to it with a religious assent. This religious submission of mind and will must be shown in a special way to the authentic magisterium of the Roman Pontiff, even when he is not speaking ex cathedra; that is, it must be shown in such a way that his supreme magisterium is acknowledged with reverence, the judgments made by him are sincerely adhered to, according to his manifest mind and will. His mind and will in the matter may be known either from the character of the documents, from his frequent repetition of the same doctrine, or from his manner of speaking.In the encyclical Humani Generis by Ven. Pius XII (1950):
20. Nor must it be thought that what is expounded in Encyclical Letters does not of itself demand consent, since in writing such Letters the Popes do not exercise the supreme power of their Teaching Authority. For these matters are taught with the ordinary teaching authority, of which it is true to say: "He who heareth you, heareth me";[3] and generally what is expounded and inculcated in Encyclical Letters already for other reasons appertains to Catholic doctrine. But if the Supreme Pontiffs in their official documents purposely pass judgment on a matter up to that time under dispute, it is obvious that that matter, according to the mind and will of the Pontiffs, cannot be any longer considered a question open to discussion among theologians.In the Vatican I document Pastor Aeternus (1870):
If then any shall say that the Roman Pontiff has the office merely of inspection or direction, and not full and supreme power of jurisdiction over the universal Church, not only in things which belong to faith and morals, but also in those things which relate to the discipline and government of the Church spread throughout the world; or assert that he possesses merely the principal part, and not all the fullness of this supreme power; or that this power which he enjoys is not ordinary and immediate, both over each and all the Churches and over each and all the pastors of the faithful; let him be anathema. [Chapter IV]The enemies of Pope Francis have accused those of us who believe the above statements of papalotry. One example of this is an article from Lifesitenews.com, an avowed enemy of Francis who colluded with Archbishop Vigano in calling for Pope Francis' resignation.
In April 2018, they published an article entitled, "Cardinals can declare that a heretical pope has ‘lost his office’: Church historian." The title alone is heresy since, according to REAL Church teaching, no human being can judge the Pope. This includes cardinals, who derive their authority directly from the Pope.
The Church historian referred to by Lifesitenews is Professor Roberto de Mattei, another avowed enemy of Pope Francis. de Mattei made his statements at a 2018 Catholic Family News conference. CFN is a traditionalist organization founded by the late Fr. Nicholas Gruner, who died very suddenly in April 2015. At the time of his death, Gruner had been suspended from the priesthood for almost 30 years for direct disobedience to his Ordinary. Gruner constantly denounced the post Vatican II Church.
This Lifesitenews article seems like it was written to prepare us for Vigano's rebellion against Pope Francis.
From the Lifesitenews article:
Speaking at the 2018 Catholic Family News conference, de Mattei called on laity and clergy alike to oppose the “theological error” of “papolatry” and to live out a “true devotion” to the papacy.First of all, no one is worshiping Pope Francis. This is total misdirection.
“True devotion to the Chair of Peter is not the worship of the man who occupies this Cathedra, but is the love and veneration for the mission which Jesus Christ gave to Peter and his successors.”
Also, Christ did not give the Keys of the Kingdom to a "mission." It is not a "mission" that has authority over the Church. A human being, Peter, was given supreme authority over the Church.
Opposing errors is not enough, Professor de Mattei said. “We need to have the courage to say: ‘Holy Father, you are the first one responsible for the confusion which exists today in the Church. Holy Father, you are the first one responsible for the heresies which are circulating in the Church today.’”If the Pope is responsible for the "confusion which exists today", then the Holy Spirit has failed in keeping the gates of hell from prevailing.
Papolatry views the Pope as a “new Christ.” It takes the position that “there is no need to worry about anything” and that the pope “perfects the doctrine of his predecessors, adapting it to the changing of the times.”de Mattei doesn't consider for moment that the problem could lie with the one hearing the Pope. The Pharisees were always accusing Jesus of heresy. Did that make them right?
Papolatrists “deceive themselves” and “tranquilize” their conscience by thinking the pope is “always right, even when he contradicts himself or his predecessors.”
We either believe that the Holy Spirit is in charge of the Church or we don't. Obviously, de Mattei believes the Holy Spirit has fallen down on the job and the gates of hell have prevailed.
In reality, “Tradition remains the criterion for discerning that which is Catholic and that which is not.” “Tradition comes before the Pope and not the Pope before Tradition.” Otherwise the Church’s perennial magisterium is replaced with a “living” magisterium that has “its rule of faith in the subject of the authority and not in the object of the transmitted truth.”Tradition comes before the Pope?! Really??!! First we are told that it is the "mission" which guides the Church. Now he says it is "Tradition." Why do we even need a man sitting in the Chair of Peter? All we really need, according to de Mattei, is a set of books that we can consult from time to time.
Oh wait. That is what the Protestants have. And look where that has gotten them! Tens of thousands of Protestant sects with everyone thinking they are right and everyone else is wrong.
Now comes the kicker. Sedevecantism rears its ugly demonic head:
Professor de Mattei also addressed the increasingly relevant, and increasingly important, question of whether Pope Francis is still the pope.
After citing others scholars (???) who have suggested Francis has fallen into heresy, de Mattei said “we must admit that the Pope himself promotes and propagates errors and heresies in the Church.” But, “as a tree can live for a certain time after its roots have been severed, so can jurisdiction be maintained...even after a fall into heresy. Jesus Christ maintains the person of the heretical Pontiff in his jurisdiction provisionally, until the Church recognizes the deposition.”
Speaking to LifeSiteNews, de Mattei said “nobody can depose the pope” but the Cardinals, can, in principle, “declare and recognize that being a heretic, [the pope] has lost his office.”
Until such a time comes, de Mattei added, Catholics must “clarify to people that unfortunately [Pope Francis] propagates heresy.” However, Francis “does not lose his office until his heresy becomes manifest” and widespread. This “has not yet happened.”If the College of Cardinals would start the precedent of declaring the pope a heretic, this would completely destroy the papacy. The Church has always taught that the bishops derive their authority from the Pope. But if the Cardinals are allowed to "declare that the Pope is a heretic and has lost his office", the concept of papal authority is turned completely on its head. The Pope can then only serve at the pleasure of the Cardinals.
The real heresy is to compare the Papacy to the United States presidency and the College of Cardinals to Congress. de Mattei's scenario in effect allows the Cardinals to convict the Pope of high crimes and misdemeanors, i.e. heresy, and then "impeach", "indict" and throw the Holy Father out of office.
This is heresy in the first degree and comes directly from the Destroyer!
de Mattei stated that Pope Francis "does not lose his office until his heresy becomes manifest." de Mattei clarified that this had not happened when he made this statement.
But now, with Vigano's testimony, the enemies of Pope Francis most assuredly will declare the Holy Father to be a heretic, and in fact, have done so for all intents and purposes.
The following is from Vigano's testimony. See how it echoes that of de Mattei. The emphases are in Vigano's original testimony:
I want to recall this indefectible truth of the Church’s holiness to the many people who have been so deeply scandalized by the abominable and sacrilegious behavior of the former Archbishop of Washington, Theodore McCarrick; by the grave, disconcerting and sinful conduct of Pope Francis and by the conspiracy of silence of so many pastors, and who are tempted to abandon the Church, disfigured by so many ignominies. At the Angelus on Sunday, August 12, 2018 Pope Francis said these words: “Everyone is guilty for the good he could have done and did not do ... If we do not oppose evil, we tacitly feed it. We need to intervene where evil is spreading; for evil spreads where daring Christians who oppose evil with good are lacking.” If this is rightly to be considered a serious moral responsibility for every believer, how much graver is it for the Church’s supreme pastor, who in the case of McCarrick not only did not oppose evil but associated himself in doing evil with someone he knew to be deeply corrupt. He followed the advice of someone he knew well to be a pervert, thus multiplying exponentially with his supreme authority the evil done by McCarrick. And how many other evil pastors is Francis still continuing to prop up in their active destruction of the Church!
Francis is abdicating the mandate which Christ gave to Peter to confirm the brethren. Indeed, by his action he has divided them, led them into error, and encouraged the wolves to continue to tear apart the sheep of Christ’s flock.
In this extremely dramatic moment for the universal Church, he must acknowledge his mistakes and, in keeping with the proclaimed principle of zero tolerance, Pope Francis must be the first to set a good example for cardinals and bishops who covered up McCarrick’s abuses and resign along with all of them.This is, without question, a demonic attack upon the Papacy and by extension, upon the entire Church. This rivals the worst of all heresies ever promulgated in the Church's history. This is the Reformation all over again.
Jesus Christ is the Head of His Mystical Body. But he has declared Peter to be that body's earthly head. If we cut off the earthly head of the body, we are rejecting the Authority of the Holy Spirit which comes through the Pope, and the gates of hell will prevail. The Church will die.
But thank God, we know this will not happen. We know the Church will survive. But how many thousands and maybe millions will be lost because of the heresy being spread by the enemies of Pope Francis?
The devil is dancing. Those who have declared war on the Papacy are, for all intents and purposes, in schism. I believe that, unless they repent, it is only a matter of time before the Holy Spirit spews them out of the Church. I could be wrong, but it seems inevitable that these enemies of Pope Francis will formally renounce the Holy Father and declare their own pope.
Don't fall into their traps. Always remember, you cannot be Catholic without Peter. Where Peter is, there is the Church.
Catholic in Brooklyn, hold your nose and go to the following URL:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/one-mans-open-letter-to-the-canadian-bishops
*sigh*
ReplyDeletehttps://www.churchmilitant.com/video/episode/vortex-just-calm-down
So, per Rosica and you then, Francis can hypothetically do or say whatever he wants, and it's per se valid and incumbent on the flock to salute? Like, for instance, declare that you shall worship the Dali Lama, maybe? Like hypothetically again, canonically legalize homosexual practices, and declare that the priesthood shall be held only by active homosexual men because they are so "accepting" and "pastoral"?
ReplyDeletePossibly he might even validly decide, if he so decided, to follow Thomas Rosica's line of "reasoning" to the bitter end and declare that these "priests" are henceforth to enact the "sexual" nature of the Eucharist in the sanctuary before the congregation during the liturgy ...?
Because this is who you sound like:
"Pope Francis breaks Catholic traditions whenever he wants because he is “free from disordered attachments.” Our Church has indeed entered a new phase: with the advent of this first Jesuit pope, it is openly ruled by an individual rather than by the authority of Scripture alone or even its own dictates of tradition plus Scripture ..."
If that is the case, and you align yourself with Rosica, who has been one of Francis' more prominent English speaking mouthpieces, you had better figure out just who it is, and what it is you are actually worshiping : "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."
Thank you for your comment, Dave. I really do mean that. You have convinced me to do a post on Rosica's comment about Pope Francis and tradition.
DeleteI am assuming you are Catholic, and that you know the basic Church doctrine that the Pope is infallible when it comes matters of faith and morals. Here is a very good explanation of this from Dr. Jeff Mirus;
https://www.ewtn.com/faith/teachings/papac2.htm
As Dr. Mirus says, the doctrine of infallibility comes from three sources: Scripture, History and Logic. A comment is not the place to get into this, so please read his article for a further explanation.
But the bottom line of Dr. Mirus' article is this:
"When the Pope (1) intends to teach (2) by virtue of his supreme authority (3) on a matter of faith and morals (4) to the whole Church, he is preserved by the Holy Spirit from error. His teaching act is therefore called 'infallible' and the teaching which he articulates is termed 'irreformable'."
I thought I had explained this in my post, but I will give it another go. The Office of the Papacy was established by Jesus Christ Himself, and as Our Lord said, this is the rock upon which the Church is built. Peter was given the Keys to the Kingdom, and the authority to loose and bind. The only authority over the Pope is the Holy Spirit. For anyone to judge the Pope is to usurp the authority of the Holy Spirit.
We have had some very bad popes over the Church's 2000 year history, but never, never, never have we had a Pope mislead the faithful in faith and morals.
Now some people are saying that Pope Francis is misleading the faithful. But if that is the case, then Jesus Christ was a liar and the Holy Spirit has fallen down on the job. The gates of hell have indeed prevailed over the Church.
Dave, you really need to think about what you are saying. There is no Church without Peter and his successors. Where Peter is, there is the Church. The Chair of Peter is Christ's authority on earth. Separate yourself from Peter, and you are separated from Christ.
Please look again at the authorities cited in my post. This is not something I am making up. It is basic Church doctrine.
You realize of course that you have not directly responded to the question as to whether there are in principle any limits as to what the pope may validly proclaim as a doctrine of faith and morals: even if in direct contradiction to centuries of practice and the very words of Jesus as reported in the Gospels. Nor, as to whether his election would in theory allow him to remake Catholicism into something else entirely while purporting to legislate ex cathedra.
ReplyDeleteThis would involve some interesting logical puzzles for an infallibility absolutist, were the pope say, to declare himself as the sole authority for a new body of scripture which is to replace the faith previously known; and this, on the basis of a license presumably granted by one portion of the traditional text.
I'm afraid that were a man supposedly properly elected pope to command you to hail Satan, or accept pedophile acts perpetrated on your own children, you would have no grounds as yet revealed, to deny the validity of his proclamation.
"As Dr. Mirus says, the doctrine of infallibility comes from three sources: Scripture, History and Logic. A comment is not the place to get into this, so please read his article for a further explanation.
ReplyDeletePlease look again at the authorities cited in my post. This is not something I am making up. It is basic Church doctrine. "
Having fulfilled my requirement for a major by writing a paper on Acton as historian, and delving fairly deeply into the ultramontanist and infallibility controversies as necessary background if nothing else, I don't think I need to review the rationale, nor accept that the formulation finally settled upon was always the explicit if not explicitly legislated dogma of the Church.
You might call this passage to mind as well as the one I earlier quoted from the Apostle Paul.
"If anyone says that it is possible that at some time, given the advancement of knowledge, a sense may be assigned to the dogmas propounded by the Church which is different from that which the Church has understood and understands: let him be anathema."
Aw, Dave. Now you have shown that you are being stubborn. Well, I will leave you to your beliefs. I believe you are sincere. But I am afraid you are going to find yourself on the wrong side of history. Church doctrine is clear about the infallibility of the Pope. Where Peter is, there is the Church.
DeleteI have invited you three times now, to say what, if any, limits there are as to what "innovations" (hint) the pope may make in his ex cathedra pronouncements on faith and morals.
ReplyDeleteTo this point, your implied categorical answer is "None". Not even to the case of a wholesale replacement of virtually all scriptures and traditions - on the scriptural justification, ironically enough - that the pope, no matter what he decrees as to faith and morals, has a divinely chartered right to function as an absolute legislating sovereign in his own person, free to act without the hindrance or let of man, tradition, former doctrine, or scripture, in shaping, reshaping, or even abolishing the so-called magesterium.
Now that, is in effect, what Rosica is boldly arguing.
Do you go so far as that?
Dave, you have made it abundantly clear that you are not interested in any kind of discussion, or any kind of exchange of ideas. You won't even read a short article that I gave you. So no, I am not going to play your game. Come back when you are ready for a real discussion.
DeleteYou do not accept the Supreme Authority of the Pope, so there is really nothing to discuss.
I am sure you will like my answer because it will give you a chance to say you "won."
Because I am interested only in a clear cut and clarifying answer from you, and not conversation, you are partly right when you say I am not interested in a discussion.
ReplyDeleteHowever you are wrong insofar as I am not interested in boasting that I "won". Because I do not see anything to gain here other than a truthful categorical answer from you as to whether there are on your view: Any limits as to what a pope may command the faithful accept as a matter of faith and morals ... even to the dissolution of the faith as it has been heretofore known, itself?
So, in addition to the "FIRST DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON THE CHURCH", and "Chapter 4.On the infallible teaching authority of the Roman Pontiff." I read the EWTN article as you suggested.
And by way of a discussion I'm not really interested in, I notice nonetheless that the good doctor's argument about "binding and loosing" leading to the pope's supreme teaching authority (which is logically tenuous and textually tendentious at best) is not used [I did a word search in addition to reading it], but it is instead testified to by other scriptural phrases, and by the supposed acknowledgement of the apostolic primacy of the Petrine bishopric by numbers of other early apostolic churches iterated in the document.
So, I have done my part as you imply you desired.
Now: Do you recognize any limits on what a pope may command the faithful accept as a matter of faith and morals ... even to the rejection of scripture and tradition, and the dissolution of the traditional faith itself as it has been heretofore known and understood?
I recognize that the no human being has the right to judge the Pope. He is answerable only to the Holy Spirit. I also recognize that Jesus Christ gave the Pope the Keys to the Kindgom. The Office of the Papacy is a Divine Office, unlike any on earth. I believe the Holy Spirit has never and will never allow the Pope to mislead the faithful.
DeleteFather Rosica’s comments are his comments and have nothing to do with the actions and words of Pope Francis.
"I recognize that the no human being has the right to judge the Pope."
DeleteIf you mean judge his specific actions as well, then I guess the Apostle Paul was out of line when he confronted Peter.
"He is answerable only to the Holy Spirit."
And you "know" this because of deductions you have made from scripture (amplified by tradition); text which you respect as conditioning any pronouncement he might make as to the binding or loosing of sin ... and perhaps, in the case of infallibility, more.
But then you have Rosica come along, and say that not even the scriptures and tradition which you rely upon in order to validate the Pope's actions in the first place, need condition or authorize the Pope's actions.
And you try to escape this logical recursion problem, by claiming that Rosica speaks only for himself, though in fact Rosica has been the Vatican's English language attaché.
By the way, I appreciate your frankness - more or less - and the fact that you have clearly admitted to what is undoubtedly a form of circular reasoning. A process which, if Rosica is correct in describing Francis' liberty to do absolutely as he pleases, saws off the very limb upon which it is perched.
DeleteBut, hey, maybe that is what "having faith" means to you. If so, that faith is liable [at risk] to morph into a faith in something, and someone, completely different than it was directed at in the past, when the sovereign legislator, freely cuts himself loose from the very texts which appear to some people to have made him that sovereign legislator in the first place.
Shall Francis declare himself God? I don't imagine so. But on what grounds you could deny it if he did, is unclear.
I suppose you simply have to rule the exercise out of court, since there would be no other way for you to deal with the matter as mooted.
I am very sorry that you have rejected Church teaching and the plain teaching of Jesus Christ. That puts you in a very precarious situation. Bye, Dave.
Delete